Sean Dyche - has one hell of a job to do !

So maybe a new thread is required to discuss the runners and riders. This is feeling more and more like The Apprentice - a yearly event.

At the moment I'm pretty solidly on the Bielsa train, despite the boom or bust nature of such an appointment. Three main reasons for that:

1. He's a proper coach, and a student of the game. The complete opposite of Lampard in terms of detail, and tactical nous. He will know more about the oppo than many oppo coaches. And we need a coach-type manager to get the best out of a limited group of players.
2. I actually think he'd fancy it, it seems like his kind of gig. I don't really see Bielsa walking into a tailor-made easy job at a big money super league club. The opportunity to build something better out of something that is shit when he arrives, that seems to be his thing.
3. Looking ahead to if we go down, I can't think of anyone better to get us straight back up again. An immediate bounce-back would take some of the financial sting out of relegation.

The obvious counter-argument is that Bielsa has a philosophy, and a demand for physical fitness in particular, that doesn't really suit him coming into a job mid-season. But if the club takes the view that "we're likely to go down but how do we get straight back up?" then I can't think of anyone better to be in place during the summer.

I think the club would be sensible to take that realistic approach, personally. And if we happen to stay up anyway, happy days.

Moyesie for me...

1. he should never have left
2. when we get in the stadium he will have money to spend, something he never had before
3. he will bore us to 0-0's & 1-0 wins as we need
4. Toffeeweb will self destruct
5. Wet Spam are so close to sacking him they won't care

no brainer

It's got to be whoever Moshiri doesn't want for me.

There's a really good article on Toffeeweb about the culture of organisations, particularly Everton. I know fuck all about this kind of thing, but I found it really persuasive and interesting. I've got no corporate experience, so maybe one of you big brain types can read it and tell me if its bollocks or not.

Anyway, under every measure, we seem to be failing (yes, I know, hardly a revelation), but it seems to me we fail most spectacularly in the relationship between owner, board, DoF, and coach. The DoF should be recommending the next coach, and the board should be making sure the owner rubber-stamps the correct appointment. Sadly we have a clueless owner, board and possibly even DoF.

So I'd go for anybody but Mosh's man.

My recommendation would be for Thelwell to draw up a short list, then we pick the one with the nicest tie from that short list. Failing that, I'd go for someone who is available immediately, and hasn't failed at a dozen English clubs.

My pick is Marcelino. He's tended to manage the less glamorous teams, and he's tended to improve them. Plays a 442, similar in style to Simeone, and is experienced but not past it (cf Bielsa). And he's available.

hairy cataract wrote:It's got to be whoever Moshiri doesn't want for me.

There's a really good article on Toffeeweb about the culture of organisations, particularly Everton.  I know fuck all about this kind of thing, but I found it really persuasive and interesting.  I've got no corporate experience, so maybe one of you big brain types can read it and tell me if its bollocks or not.  

Anyway, under every measure, we seem to be failing (yes, I know, hardly a revelation), but it seems to me we fail most spectacularly in the relationship between owner, board, DoF, and coach.  The DoF should be recommending the next coach, and the board should be making sure the owner rubber-stamps the correct appointment.  Sadly we have a clueless owner, board and possibly even DoF.

So I'd go for anybody but Mosh's man.  

My recommendation would be for Thelwell to draw up a short list, then we pick the one with the nicest tie from that short list.  Failing that, I'd go for someone who is available immediately, and hasn't failed at a dozen English clubs.

My pick is Marcelino.  He's tended to manage the less glamorous teams, and he's tended to improve them.  Plays a 442, similar in style to Simeone, and is experienced but not past it (cf Bielsa).  And he's available.

Hmm. There are plenty of reasons to be unsure about Bielsa but this isn't one of them, for me anyway. Would be lovely if he were 10 years younger but he's only four years older than Ancelotti and four years younger than Taggart when he packed it in.

So yeah, he's old. But Mike Walker was 49 when we got him, Koeman 53, Lampard 43, etc. Age is but a number, and I'm disappointed in you, hairy, that you're being a literal racist towards old people. Boooooo. I'm now going to try to get you cancelled, whatever that means.

The other thing about Bielsa is this - and I'm reminded of the old Jim Jefferies sketch about crazy people ("they don't know they're crazy...that's what makes them crazy.") - Bielsa is clearly mad, and so is our football club. In that sense it's a perfect fit. I can't think of any other manager in the world and possibly in the history of the game who could walk into Finch Farm right now and observe the utter chaos and madness surrounding our club and the way it's run, and think to themselves "yeah this all seems fine, perfectly normal."

That's probably my biggest fear, that we might get someone who then quits before the end of his first week with a "what the actual fuck?" look on his face when he finds out he's got to make his own tea because Doris has been promoted to Director of Youth Development.

Is Paulo Fonseca not available this time? I'm still not convinced he exists.

Bielsa is the most glamourous name. Like Rotts says, there's not enough time for him to implement anything, but he may be the best option for getting us straight back up. With our board, things would turn sour pretty quickly though.

A novel idea might be for the club to agree on a style of play and model of progression and to start employing the staff who fit with that philosophy, from manager to players to backroom staff, regardless of whether that means relegation in the short term.

I'm not really arsed tbh. It's changing captains on the titanic (post iceberg). One might keep us up and paper over the cracks, one might take us down and leave us looking in the mirror at the grim reality that what we could once just about pass off as pecs and a six pack are now, sadly, very saggy moobs and a paunch. Might as well be Bielsa, at least we'll have some fun on the way to the championship.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:It's got to be whoever Moshiri doesn't want for me.

There's a really good article on Toffeeweb about the culture of organisations, particularly Everton.  I know fuck all about this kind of thing, but I found it really persuasive and interesting.  I've got no corporate experience, so maybe one of you big brain types can read it and tell me if its bollocks or not.  

Anyway, under every measure, we seem to be failing (yes, I know, hardly a revelation), but it seems to me we fail most spectacularly in the relationship between owner, board, DoF, and coach.  The DoF should be recommending the next coach, and the board should be making sure the owner rubber-stamps the correct appointment.  Sadly we have a clueless owner, board and possibly even DoF.

So I'd go for anybody but Mosh's man.  

My recommendation would be for Thelwell to draw up a short list, then we pick the one with the nicest tie from that short list.  Failing that, I'd go for someone who is available immediately, and hasn't failed at a dozen English clubs.

My pick is Marcelino.  He's tended to manage the less glamorous teams, and he's tended to improve them.  Plays a 442, similar in style to Simeone, and is experienced but not past it (cf Bielsa).  And he's available.

Hmm. There are plenty of reasons to be unsure about Bielsa but this isn't one of them, for me anyway. Would be lovely if he were 10 years younger but he's only four years older than Ancelotti and four years younger than Taggart when he packed it in.

So yeah, he's old. But Mike Walker was 49 when we got him, Koeman 53, Lampard 43, etc. Age is but a number, and I'm disappointed in you, hairy, that you're being a literal racist towards old people. Boooooo. I'm now going to try to get you cancelled, whatever that means.

The other thing about Bielsa is this - and I'm reminded of the old Jim Jefferies sketch about crazy people ("they don't know they're crazy...that's what makes them crazy.") - Bielsa is clearly mad, and so is our football club. In that sense it's a perfect fit. I can't think of any other manager in the world and possibly in the history of the game who could walk into Finch Farm right now and observe the utter chaos and madness surrounding our club and the way it's run, and think to themselves "yeah this all seems fine, perfectly normal."

That's probably my biggest fear, that we might get someone who then quits before the end of his first week with a "what the actual fuck?" look on his face when he finds out he's got to make his own tea because Doris has been promoted to Director of Youth Development.

that's what one of my daughters always says to me, when I'm refusing to give her a lift to her drug dealers or whatever. Always makes me laugh.

Anyway, rumour is that Bielsa took one look at our squad and said he'd only consider coming if we bought some players, immediately, who could run faster than a one-legged tortoise.

In fact, I reckon he'll only come if he looks at his diary and thinks "yeah, fuck it, I've not got a holiday booked until early June, I can pick up a few million at this Everton place, and then fuck off to the Bahamas for a bit after they sack me when we go down".

Goodison_Gringo wrote:Is Paulo Fonseca not available this time? I'm still not convinced he exists.

Bielsa is the most glamourous name. Like Rotts says, there's not enough time for him to implement anything, but he may be the best option for getting us straight back up. With our board, things would turn sour pretty quickly though.

A novel idea might be for the club to agree on a style of play and model of progression and to start employing the staff who fit with that philosophy, from manager to players to backroom staff, regardless of whether that means relegation in the short term.

Now you're just taking the piss aren't you?

hairy cataract wrote:

Goodison_Gringo wrote:Is Paulo Fonseca not available this time? I'm still not convinced he exists.

Bielsa is the most glamourous name. Like Rotts says, there's not enough time for him to implement anything, but he may be the best option for getting us straight back up. With our board, things would turn sour pretty quickly though.

A novel idea might be for the club to agree on a style of play and model of progression and to start employing the staff who fit with that philosophy, from manager to players to backroom staff, regardless of whether that means relegation in the short term.

Now you're just taking the piss aren't you?

Yep, you can fuck off to brighton or brentford with that nonsense.

Latest odds:

Bielsa 10/11
Dyche 5/2
Allardyce 8/1
Big Dunc 10/1
Rooney 10/1
Marcelino 14/1
Nuno 16/1
Thomas Frank 16/1
Moyes 20/1

hairy cataract wrote:
My pick is Marcelino.

Only managed in Spain, doesn't stay at a club for more than a year or so. What could go wrong?

Tonteau wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Goodison_Gringo wrote:Is Paulo Fonseca not available this time? I'm still not convinced he exists.

Bielsa is the most glamourous name. Like Rotts says, there's not enough time for him to implement anything, but he may be the best option for getting us straight back up. With our board, things would turn sour pretty quickly though.

A novel idea might be for the club to agree on a style of play and model of progression and to start employing the staff who fit with that philosophy, from manager to players to backroom staff, regardless of whether that means relegation in the short term.

Now you're just taking the piss aren't you?

Yep, you can fuck off to brighton or brentford with that nonsense.

fully deserved

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Latest odds:

Bielsa 10/11
Dyche 5/2
Allardyce 8/1
Big Dunc 10/1
Rooney 10/1
Marcelino 14/1
Nuno 16/1
Thomas Frank 16/1
Moyes 20/1

Bollocks, I had a fiver on Nuno at 10/1. I should have waited. Or, preferably, saved my fiver.

hairy cataract wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Latest odds:

Bielsa 10/11 6/5
Dyche 5/2
Allardyce 8/1 7/1 (sweet Jesus)
Hassenhuttl 8/1 (ditto)
Rooney 10/1
Big Dunc 10/1 12/1
Marcelino 14/1 16/1
Nuno 16/1
Thomas Frank 16/1
Moyes 20/1
Ange Postecoglu 20/1

Bollocks, I had a fiver on Nuno  at 10/1.  I should have waited.  Or, preferably, saved my fiver.

Real time updates above.

Postecoglu is an interesting one. He looks like he knows what he's doing. Trouble is, he's doing it in Scotland, which is no yardstick for anything really.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Latest odds:

Bielsa 10/11 6/5
Dyche 5/2
Allardyce 8/1 7/1 (sweet Jesus)
Hassenhuttl 8/1 (ditto)
Rooney 10/1
Big Dunc 10/1 12/1
Marcelino 14/1 16/1
Nuno 16/1
Thomas Frank 16/1
Moyes 20/1
Ange Postecoglu 20/1

Bollocks, I had a fiver on Nuno  at 10/1.  I should have waited.  Or, preferably, saved my fiver.

Real time updates above.

Postecoglu is an interesting one. He looks like he knows what he's doing. Trouble is, he's doing it in Scotland, which is no yardstick for anything really.

With Danjuma deciding he'd rather sit on the bench with Richarlison, and Anthony Gordon looking like he's off to the Toon, whoever takes over better bring a pair of boots with him.

Anyway, just a thought, but if the rumours are true and we're selling Gordon to Newcastle, and maybe Onana to Chelsea, do you think that means the club has accepted relegation, and will bring in a manager who will be told to write off this season, but start preparing for getting us back up next season?

If we get £40m for Gordon and £50m for Onana, then sell Pickford for another £50m at the end of May, that gives Bielsa £140m to put together a fast, fit, and furious team to win promotion. He's done it before. It would almost make sense.

Imagine the club actually admitting it though?

Mind you, the flaw in that argument is that we might get even more for them in the summer.

hairy cataract wrote:Anyway, just a thought, but if the rumours are true and we're selling Gordon to Newcastle, and maybe Onana to Chelsea, do you think that means the club has accepted relegation, and will bring in a manager who will be told to write off this season, but start preparing for getting us back up next season?  

If we get £40m for Gordon and £50m for Onana, then sell Pickford for another £50m at the end of May, that gives Bielsa £140m to put together a fast, fit, and furious team to win promotion.  He's done it before.  It would almost make sense.

Imagine the club actually admitting it though?  

Mind you, the flaw in that argument is that we might get even more for them in the summer.

I reckon the flaw in that is thinking that the $140m would go back in the transfer pot.

Goodison_Gringo wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:Anyway, just a thought, but if the rumours are true and we're selling Gordon to Newcastle, and maybe Onana to Chelsea, do you think that means the club has accepted relegation, and will bring in a manager who will be told to write off this season, but start preparing for getting us back up next season?  

If we get £40m for Gordon and £50m for Onana, then sell Pickford for another £50m at the end of May, that gives Bielsa £140m to put together a fast, fit, and furious team to win promotion.  He's done it before.  It would almost make sense.

Imagine the club actually admitting it though?  

Mind you, the flaw in that argument is that we might get even more for them in the summer.

I reckon the flaw in that is thinking that the $140m would go back in the transfer pot.

True dat. Would pay for some fine toilets in the new ground, and pies all round for a year.

social media (spit) is saying Bielsa has turned us down !

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:social media (spit) is saying Bielsa has turned us down !

Must be because of the Ikea footstool. We probably offered him one from Dunelm.

hairy cataract wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:social media (spit) is saying Bielsa has turned us down !

Must be because of the Ikea footstool.  We probably offered him one from Dunelm.

it's gonna be Fat Sam mate... free Pukka pie before the next home game to get you all onside with the appointment

What I would like today, from Everton, is a quiet one. No further humiliations please, just for 24 hours.

No players bailing out on us while on the medical table.
No board members in headlocks.
No proposed managers distancing themselves from the role.
No bullshit security threats.
No dressing room scuffles.
No reports of players skipping training.
No conflicting reports of whether the club is up for sale or not.

I realise that's quite a long list. I may be asking for too much here.

Oh, and no further questions about Usmanov and Everton being asked in the Commons, please? Thanks.

I think we need to go for Emma Hayes. This would, I believe, be a genius masterstroke. A woman so the crowd less likely to boo her, players less likely to have a dust up in front of her, media focus on 'the first female (are we allowed to say that, still) manager of a premier league team' and not 'Everton are in a spiralling crisis', she seems to know her shit and probably would cost less to buy out of her contract and pay (apologies for the sexism, but it's just how it is). Sling your hook, Kev, there's a new director of football in town. He's a maverick and he's thinking oustide the box...

Tonteau wrote:I think we need to go for Emma Hayes. This would, I believe, be a genius masterstroke. A woman so the crowd less likely to boo her, players less likely to have a dust up in front of her, media focus on 'the first female (are we allowed to say that, still) manager of a premier league team' and not 'Everton are in a spiralling crisis', she seems to know her shit and probably would cost less to buy out of her contract and pay (apologies for the sexism, but it's just how it is). Sling your hook, Kev, there's a new director of football in town. He's a maverick and he's thinking oustide the box...

Or Sarina Wiegman. A serial winner at the highest level of women's international football, she clearly knows how to motivate and organise a team. Dutch, so she'd be able to tell Ten Hag to fuck off and die in his native tongue if he came trying to nick our players. Unless it's Maupay in which she can tell him "he's yours, sucker" in his native tongue.

hairy cataract wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I think we need to go for Emma Hayes. This would, I believe, be a genius masterstroke. A woman so the crowd less likely to boo her, players less likely to have a dust up in front of her, media focus on 'the first female (are we allowed to say that, still) manager of a premier league team' and not 'Everton are in a spiralling crisis', she seems to know her shit and probably would cost less to buy out of her contract and pay (apologies for the sexism, but it's just how it is). Sling your hook, Kev, there's a new director of football in town. He's a maverick and he's thinking oustide the box...

Or Sarina Wiegman.  A serial winner at the highest level of women's international football, she clearly knows how to motivate and organise a team.  Dutch, so she'd be able to tell Ten Hag to fuck off and die in his native tongue if he came trying to nick our players.  Unless it's Maupay in which she can tell him "he's yours, sucker" in his native tongue.

I was going to suggest her but no way she'd leave her cushy job at England for basket case Everton.