Everton 1 (Cahill) Wolves 1

They out played us in the last 25mins. They looked like the home team.

PS and in that period our midfiled looked not exsistant.

Gazbow wrote:They out played us in the last 25mins. They looked like the home team.

agreed

You must have been pleased by Bellamy's debut, Gaz la

Mr_Ben wrote:

Gazbow wrote:They out played us in the last 25mins. They looked like the home team.

agreed

You must have been pleased by Bellamy's debut, Gaz la

Cracking. Cardiffs odd have dropped to win the Championship.

Hopfully he will send them up, sign long term and then I got one match along with Swansea if they come up that I dont have to drive crazy miles to see the Blues playing football at a Stadium.

my hatred for everton grows every week. i think i hate them more than i like them.

Sheep Flavour wrote:

Mr_Ben wrote:

Gazbow wrote:They out played us in the last 25mins. They looked like the home team.

agreed

You must have been pleased by Bellamy's debut, Gaz la

Cracking. Cardiffs odd have dropped to win the Championship.

Hopfully he will send them up, sign long term and then I got one match along with Swansea if they come up that I dont have to drive crazy miles to see the Blues playing football at a Stadium.

He scored a screamer apparently. Looking like a good bet for auto promo... although not convinced on the defence... Should been up in the prem this season... Then we could of had a jolly boys outing in Cardiff!!

Next season hopefully.

F.ME - 40 odd years of watching football (and Everton) and I have never seen a referee as poor as Mason. Clattenburg may be a cheat but he can't be this poor in his judgement.

Cahill took 4-5 digs before he got a free kick. The goal should have been a penalty I believe (and I'm sat at the other end of the ground). Cahill brought down in the box (maybe). A yellow card for almost kicking one of our players into the Family Enclosure. Their goal: Saha poll-axed from behind, Heitinga taken out in the build-up.

Beckford elbowed in the face....

Do I need to go on - there were 5-6 yellow card offences in the first 30 mins - I think we got 2 free-kicks.

And, how about this for size - Everton player clattered from behind, edge of their box. Mason waves play on - the Wolves player PICKS THE BALL UP and takes a 'free-kick' - Mason ignores all this.

This referee should be ashamed of his performance - it was the 2nd worst I've seen in 40 years (after Clattenburg in the Derby)

Tonteau wrote:

BB wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

We were incredibly Dominant in the first half, with lots of attcking play, yet Bilyaletdinov was rubbishki.

Moyes left him on the field untill 10 minutes to go.

His first substitution ( again on 70 flamin minutes like flamin always ) was the useless Saha, who gave the ball away, and cost us a goal. His second substitution was Osman and then Fellaini.

Did either of these players do well last week?

We're not a bad side, but lately, we have a very poor manager who is suffocating the prospects of the team by being stubborn, and reluctant. We'd do better if he took a little holiday ( for 36 weeks ). Now that ........ is 'my' kneejerk. Feel free to find your own.

Behave, the lot of you.

This was always going to be a tough match and the fact we drew it doesn't surprise me at all (see tipster). However we are a club trying to get from where the likes of Wolves are to where the likes of united, chelsea and arsenal are. Currently we're struggling to get it together, cos we can pass it better but are struggling to finish off our chances but we're now struggling with the physical nature of some teams. I thought wolves kicked us pretty hard today and largely we didn't like it. But we need to accept that this is where we are and it'll be a little while before it all clicks and we start seeing results. We battered them in the first half and did create plenty of chances, we just couldn't finish them off. Their second half response was boringly predictable, we should have been more ready for it.

It is a shame when we want to see the likes of Gueye and Coleman on, but we all know Moyes is a cautious manager by nature. However, he's the one who's got us this far, so we either do it his way and bear with him when stuff like this happens or not at all.

Well said.

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

Statman wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

I think we'd be better if Moyes had a go, rather than play the percentage option like he does. He's still trying to make us hard to beat by the looks of it sometimes instead of making us more exciting. I can accept losing if I've been entertained, and that at the end of the day, is surely why we watch football. The first derby last season is a great example of playing wonderful football yet losing. Surely we don't watch it to sit or stand grimacing at what might have been or could be. Moyes must read forums. He must read the views of the fans. Any manager worth his salt must need feedback, yet still he plays the same players and gets the same results.
Granted, we don't have cash, but a price tag doesn't make a player good. The player does, and we have damn good players, and potential.
I don't always buy that we are punching above our weight. Our team is full of Internationals. Winning the league would be punching above our weight. 5th at the time was about right I felt. Coming in at around 6th or 7th would be about right now being that City are now a super force. 8th, is a step backwards and failure. Our sights this year might be better served hoping for a cup win, and hoping we get the luck of the draw.

Mason's efforts recorded for posterity here:

http://www.skysports.com/football/match_commentary/0,19764,11065_3285920,00.html


83 Baines is upended and Arteta has a chance with a free-kick on the left. Craddock clears.

79 Tackles flying in as the Goodison Park faithful are getting restless. Everton struggling to get the ball now.

75 Guedioura looked to have fouled Heitinga win the ball in the initial move, then he picked out Doyle on the right whose crossed missed substitute Guedioura's run, but Ebanks-Blake was on hand to equalise.

74 EQUALISER! Ebanks-Blake scores for Wolves.

67 Craddock jumps with Beckford and the ex-Leeds man is left holding the back of his head. Referee Mason plays on.

66 Cahill was the other man down, but he is back up as well. Berra lucky to escape a booking there.

65 Two men down for Everton as the Wolves defence stand firm. Berra blocks off Pienaar who is spluttering and struggling to breathe. Looks winded, but he is back up again.

63 Baines and Henry grappling in the corner of the penalty box and Bilyaletdinov crosses to nobody.
(actually this was Baines beats his man but he's not allowed to go past him)

51 Doyle goes in late on Distin, but the French defender stays on his feet and probably saves the Irishman a booking.

41 Distin picks out Arteta, who dances around two Wolves players on the edge of the box. He is brought down in the area, but Lee Mason gives a free-kick. Replays show it was a penalty.

40 Sylvain Distin fires a long ball forwards which Beckford brings down well in the box, but he is shunted off the ball.

36 Elokobi involved again as he clashes with Cahill in the box. The Everton man goes over very easily and Lee Mason is not interested. No penalty!

35 Elokobi is booked after kicking out at Arteta. Very silly booking.

33 There have been a few incidents that have caused clashes all over the pitch. A physical game which could boil over at any minute.

29 Arteta is limping after a collision with Jones, but Beckford goes in late on Berra and gets a ticking off from Lee Mason.

20 Referee Mason is having a word with John Heitinga after he went in a little late on Sylvan Ebanks-Blake*

* actually he didn't 'go in late on SEB - he tried to get the ball back quickly for a free kick awarded to Everton

18 Steven Pienaar is caught from behind by Henry and Everton have a free-kick in a good position, 25 yards from goal.

15 Karl Henry has a tussle with Cahill which has resulted in the Everton man getting a free-kick on the left touchline, 35 yards out.

12 Everton break down the other end, but Arteta is muscled off the ball by Elokobi as he approached the right corner of the box.

7 HIbbert crosses for Cahill, who nods the ball back for Bilyaletdinov. The Russian is nudged by David Jones as he shoots, but not enough contact to warrant a penalty.

5 Beckford is wrestled down by Christophe Berra 40 yards from goal. Lucky not to be booked.

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

I think we'd be better if Moyes had a go, rather than play the percentage option like he does. He's still trying to make us hard to beat by the looks of it sometimes instead of making us more exciting. I can accept losing if I've been entertained, and that at the end of the day, is surely why we watch football. The first derby last season is a great example of playing wonderful football yet losing. Surely we don't watch it to sit or stand grimacing at what might have been or could be. Moyes must read forums. He must read the views of the fans. Any manager worth his salt must need feedback, yet still he plays the same players and gets the same results.
Granted, we don't have cash, but a price tag doesn't make a player good. The player does, and we have damn good players, and potential.
I don't always buy that we are punching above our weight. Our team is full of Internationals. Winning the league would be punching above our weight. 5th at the time was about right I felt. Coming in at around 6th or 7th would be about right now being that City are now a super force. 8th, is a step backwards and failure. Our sights this year might be better served hoping for a cup win, and hoping we get the luck of the draw.

Most of us would agree that England are not the best international team at the moment. I expect that you would find it hard to disagree.

So given that, and being honest, how many of our players should be in the England first 11? I can think only think of Heitinga (if played in the right position).

There is a big difference between being an international and being worthy of being described as 'international class'.

Even after I am still really fed up

WHY OH WHY did I get my hopes up.

I know we will come good but we have blown 5 points already.
Its ok beating Manu and Chelsea but we need to win these so called easier games as well

Maybe it will seem better when I'm

Statman wrote:

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

I think we'd be better if Moyes had a go, rather than play the percentage option like he does. He's still trying to make us hard to beat by the looks of it sometimes instead of making us more exciting. I can accept losing if I've been entertained, and that at the end of the day, is surely why we watch football. The first derby last season is a great example of playing wonderful football yet losing. Surely we don't watch it to sit or stand grimacing at what might have been or could be. Moyes must read forums. He must read the views of the fans. Any manager worth his salt must need feedback, yet still he plays the same players and gets the same results.
Granted, we don't have cash, but a price tag doesn't make a player good. The player does, and we have damn good players, and potential.
I don't always buy that we are punching above our weight. Our team is full of Internationals. Winning the league would be punching above our weight. 5th at the time was about right I felt. Coming in at around 6th or 7th would be about right now being that City are now a super force. 8th, is a step backwards and failure. Our sights this year might be better served hoping for a cup win, and hoping we get the luck of the draw.

Most of us would agree that England are not he best international team at the moment. I expect that you would find it hard to disagree.

So given that, and being honest, how many of our players should be in the England first 11? I can think only think of Heitinga (if played in the right position).

There is a big difference between being an international and being worthy of being described as 'international class'.

Firstly, England are a lot better than the WC made them look, though they are no bench mark for International standards. Spains team is predominantly constructed of Barcelona players, and their advantage isn't necessarily that they are individually better, which they may be, but that they play as a team, because they 'are' a team. 7 out of 11 to be precise.

Having said that, we play in England, so I guess you could say that those who stand out in the league as being 'great players' would surely have a competetive chance of being picked for England, should their nationality be deemed English.

Of our players, the following are, or have been, 'full' internationals:

Howard - USA
Jagielka - England
Baines - England
Neville - England
Heitinga - Nederlands
Yobo - Nigeria
Anichebe - Nigeria
Yakubu - Nigeria
Fellaini - Belgium
Bilyaletdinov - Russia
Cahill - Australia
Saha - France
Distin - France
Pienaar - South Africa
Mucha - Slovakia

Youth etc :

Shane Duffy - N Ireland
Seamus Coleman - Rep Ireland
Wallace - Rep Ireland
Mustafi - Germany
Rodwell - England
Vaughan - England
Gueye - France
Silva - Portugal
Baxter - England
Arteta - Spain

Not included for International duty as far as I know:

Osman - English
Hibbert - English
Agard - English
Beckford - Can play for Jamaica, Granada, or England lol.

When I said our team was full of Internationals, I appreciate that each might not be the greatest player in the world, but we have the team we have, and it is fair testament to Moyes and Kenwright that we do. The England team aren't successful for many reasons, but one reason might be that they are a team full of players who play in the top teams in the league, and might not even be as good as some of the other players, but they are in the spotlight, so get picked. Would any of them make a huge difference to Everton?

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

I think we'd be better if Moyes had a go, rather than play the percentage option like he does. He's still trying to make us hard to beat by the looks of it sometimes instead of making us more exciting. I can accept losing if I've been entertained, and that at the end of the day, is surely why we watch football. The first derby last season is a great example of playing wonderful football yet losing. Surely we don't watch it to sit or stand grimacing at what might have been or could be. Moyes must read forums. He must read the views of the fans. Any manager worth his salt must need feedback, yet still he plays the same players and gets the same results.
Granted, we don't have cash, but a price tag doesn't make a player good. The player does, and we have damn good players, and potential.
I don't always buy that we are punching above our weight. Our team is full of Internationals. Winning the league would be punching above our weight. 5th at the time was about right I felt. Coming in at around 6th or 7th would be about right now being that City are now a super force. 8th, is a step backwards and failure. Our sights this year might be better served hoping for a cup win, and hoping we get the luck of the draw.

Most of us would agree that England are not he best international team at the moment. I expect that you would find it hard to disagree.

So given that, and being honest, how many of our players should be in the England first 11? I can think only think of Heitinga (if played in the right position).

There is a big difference between being an international and being worthy of being described as 'international class'.

Firstly, England are a lot better than the WC made them look, though they are no bench mark for International standards. Spains team is predominantly constructed of Barcelona players, and their advantage isn't necessarily that they are individually better, which they may be, but that they play as a team, because they 'are' a team. 7 out of 11 to be precise.

Having said that, we play in England, so I guess you could say that those who stand out in the league as being 'great players' would surely have a competetive chance of being picked for England, should their nationality be deemed English.

Of our players, the following are, or have been, 'full' internationals:

Howard - USA
Jagielka - England
Baines - England
Neville - England
Heitinga - Nederlands
Yobo - Nigeria
Anichebe - Nigeria
Yakubu - Nigeria
Fellaini - Belgium
Bilyaletdinov - Russia
Cahill - Australia
Saha - France
Distin - France
Pienaar - South Africa
Mucha - Slovakia

Youth etc :

Shane Duffy - N Ireland
Seamus Coleman - Rep Ireland
Wallace - Rep Ireland
Mustafi - Germany
Rodwell - England
Vaughan - England
Gueye - France
Silva - Portugal
Baxter - England
Arteta - Spain

Not included for International duty as far as I know:

Osman - English
Hibbert - English
Agard - English
Beckford - Can play for Jamaica, Granada, or England lol.

When I said our team was full of Internationals, I appreciate that each might not be the greatest player in the world, but we have the team we have, and it is fair testament to Moyes and Kenwright that we do. The England team aren't successful for many reasons, but one reason might be that they are a team full of players who play in the top teams in the league, and might not even be as good as some of the other players, but they are in the spotlight, so get picked. Would any of them make a huge difference to Everton?

That makes it even more depressing
We have the squad and players to beat Backburn and Wolves
WHAT GOES WRONG AT START OF SEASON !!!!

The President wrote:

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

I think we'd be better if Moyes had a go, rather than play the percentage option like he does. He's still trying to make us hard to beat by the looks of it sometimes instead of making us more exciting. I can accept losing if I've been entertained, and that at the end of the day, is surely why we watch football. The first derby last season is a great example of playing wonderful football yet losing. Surely we don't watch it to sit or stand grimacing at what might have been or could be. Moyes must read forums. He must read the views of the fans. Any manager worth his salt must need feedback, yet still he plays the same players and gets the same results.
Granted, we don't have cash, but a price tag doesn't make a player good. The player does, and we have damn good players, and potential.
I don't always buy that we are punching above our weight. Our team is full of Internationals. Winning the league would be punching above our weight. 5th at the time was about right I felt. Coming in at around 6th or 7th would be about right now being that City are now a super force. 8th, is a step backwards and failure. Our sights this year might be better served hoping for a cup win, and hoping we get the luck of the draw.

Most of us would agree that England are not he best international team at the moment. I expect that you would find it hard to disagree.

So given that, and being honest, how many of our players should be in the England first 11? I can think only think of Heitinga (if played in the right position).

There is a big difference between being an international and being worthy of being described as 'international class'.

Firstly, England are a lot better than the WC made them look, though they are no bench mark for International standards. Spains team is predominantly constructed of Barcelona players, and their advantage isn't necessarily that they are individually better, which they may be, but that they play as a team, because they 'are' a team. 7 out of 11 to be precise.

Having said that, we play in England, so I guess you could say that those who stand out in the league as being 'great players' would surely have a competetive chance of being picked for England, should their nationality be deemed English.

Of our players, the following are, or have been, 'full' internationals:

Howard - USA
Jagielka - England
Baines - England
Neville - England
Heitinga - Nederlands
Yobo - Nigeria
Anichebe - Nigeria
Yakubu - Nigeria
Fellaini - Belgium
Bilyaletdinov - Russia
Cahill - Australia
Saha - France
Distin - France
Pienaar - South Africa
Mucha - Slovakia

Youth etc :

Shane Duffy - N Ireland
Seamus Coleman - Rep Ireland
Wallace - Rep Ireland
Mustafi - Germany
Rodwell - England
Vaughan - England
Gueye - France
Silva - Portugal
Baxter - England
Arteta - Spain

Not included for International duty as far as I know:

Osman - English
Hibbert - English
Agard - English
Beckford - Can play for Jamaica, Granada, or England lol.

When I said our team was full of Internationals, I appreciate that each might not be the greatest player in the world, but we have the team we have, and it is fair testament to Moyes and Kenwright that we do. The England team aren't successful for many reasons, but one reason might be that they are a team full of players who play in the top teams in the league, and might not even be as good as some of the other players, but they are in the spotlight, so get picked. Would any of them make a huge difference to Everton?

That makes it even more depressing
We have the squad and players to beat Backburn and Wolves
WHAT GOES WRONG AT START OF SEASON !!!!

Come back in Oct Pres. We will think about starting then and just finish behind the Top 4 cue the if we had started well we could of...........

We were all over them 1st half
http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/8121224/21526458

I thought we were holding on at the end and could of lost.

Who said football was a game of two halfs.

Just waiting until we form a Whole - then we will be nearly unbeatable

Toffee Dan wrote:F.ME - 40 odd years of watching football (and Everton) and I have never seen a referee as poor as Mason. Clattenburg may be a cheat but he can't be this poor in his judgement.

Cahill took 4-5 digs before he got a free kick. The goal should have been a penalty I believe (and I'm sat at the other end of the ground). Cahill brought down in the box (maybe). A yellow card for almost kicking one of our players into the Family Enclosure. Their goal: Saha poll-axed from behind, Heitinga taken out in the build-up.

Beckford elbowed in the face....

Do I need to go on - there were 5-6 yellow card offences in the first 30 mins - I think we got 2 free-kicks.

And, how about this for size - Everton player clattered from behind, edge of their box. Mason waves play on - the Wolves player PICKS THE BALL UP and takes a 'free-kick' - Mason ignores all this.

This referee should be ashamed of his performance - it was the 2nd worst I've seen in 40 years (after Clattenburg in the Derby)

Sheep Flavour wrote:

BB wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

We were incredibly Dominant in the first half, with lots of attcking play, yet Bilyaletdinov was rubbishki.

Moyes left him on the field untill 10 minutes to go.

His first substitution ( again on 70 flamin minutes like flamin always ) was the useless Saha, who gave the ball away, and cost us a goal. His second substitution was Osman and then Fellaini.

Did either of these players do well last week?

We're not a bad side, but lately, we have a very poor manager who is suffocating the prospects of the team by being stubborn, and reluctant. We'd do better if he took a little holiday ( for 36 weeks ). Now that ........ is 'my' kneejerk. Feel free to find your own.

I agree with all of this to be fair.

Why did we take Beckford off? He was full of running and granted he may not of scored but he was always looking to get forward and to be fair to the man did a lot more than Saha did.

Osman............................................???? Great when we are playing teams with no pace but Wolves on the front foot then we needed Gaye not wee man and a unfit

Moyes fucked up his subs, team and the win.

Why didnt we take Billy off and play two up front. Saha and Beckford?

I agree with this as well. I was hoping for Gueye to come on for some pace and width, instead we got Osman and Fellaini, who were shite against Blackburn. Why they came on, I'll never know.

Now to the positives - Hibbert MOM?!

Mr_Ben wrote:

Dixie Land wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

BB wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

We were incredibly Dominant in the first half, with lots of attcking play, yet Bilyaletdinov was rubbishki.

Moyes left him on the field untill 10 minutes to go.

His first substitution ( again on 70 flamin minutes like flamin always ) was the useless Saha, who gave the ball away, and cost us a goal. His second substitution was Osman and then Fellaini.

Did either of these players do well last week?

We're not a bad side, but lately, we have a very poor manager who is suffocating the prospects of the team by being stubborn, and reluctant. We'd do better if he took a little holiday ( for 36 weeks ). Now that ........ is 'my' kneejerk. Feel free to find your own.

Behave, the lot of you.

This was always going to be a tough match and the fact we drew it doesn't surprise me at all (see tipster). However we are a club trying to get from where the likes of Wolves are to where the likes of united, chelsea and arsenal are. Currently we're struggling to get it together, cos we can pass it better but are struggling to finish off our chances but we're now struggling with the physical nature of some teams. I thought wolves kicked us pretty hard today and largely we didn't like it. But we need to accept that this is where we are and it'll be a little while before it all clicks and we start seeing results. We battered them in the first half and did create plenty of chances, we just couldn't finish them off. Their second half response was boringly predictable, we should have been more ready for it.

It is a shame when we want to see the likes of Gueye and Coleman on, but we all know Moyes is a cautious manager by nature. However, he's the one who's got us this far, so we either do it his way and bear with him when stuff like this happens or not at all.

I appreciate BB's comments but to say that Moyes is a "very poor manager" is way wide of the mark. As Tonts says, it is him that has taken us from relegation contenders to regulars in the UEFA Cup (or whatever its called now). I personally think that he messed up today with his tactics but this doesnt make him a poor manager. I am still happy that we have him in charge and think that this season will improve soon.

No need to jump down BB's neck, he did say it was his kneejerk reaction.

All in all, i think the tactics were poor.

Hibbert again offensively is dire. Osman at RM/RW is not working. Bily is still tired from 2 seasons ago in Russia.

I honestly would like to know why Yak is not on the bench, he could have at least done a job for us. JH tackle (sic) to concede the goal was lackadaisical and summed us up today.

Pitty as when 1-0 up we looked good.

I know that Hibbert has received a lot of stick, and rightly so, in the past, but I thought he did very well yesterday. A lot can be said when we were more dangerous on the right flank where Hibbert made several over lapping runs, and he was more dangerous than Baines. Didn't think I was ever going to say that!

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:

Mr_Ben wrote:

Dixie Land wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

BB wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

We were incredibly Dominant in the first half, with lots of attcking play, yet Bilyaletdinov was rubbishki.

Moyes left him on the field untill 10 minutes to go.

His first substitution ( again on 70 flamin minutes like flamin always ) was the useless Saha, who gave the ball away, and cost us a goal. His second substitution was Osman and then Fellaini.

Did either of these players do well last week?

We're not a bad side, but lately, we have a very poor manager who is suffocating the prospects of the team by being stubborn, and reluctant. We'd do better if he took a little holiday ( for 36 weeks ). Now that ........ is 'my' kneejerk. Feel free to find your own.

Behave, the lot of you.

This was always going to be a tough match and the fact we drew it doesn't surprise me at all (see tipster). However we are a club trying to get from where the likes of Wolves are to where the likes of united, chelsea and arsenal are. Currently we're struggling to get it together, cos we can pass it better but are struggling to finish off our chances but we're now struggling with the physical nature of some teams. I thought wolves kicked us pretty hard today and largely we didn't like it. But we need to accept that this is where we are and it'll be a little while before it all clicks and we start seeing results. We battered them in the first half and did create plenty of chances, we just couldn't finish them off. Their second half response was boringly predictable, we should have been more ready for it.

It is a shame when we want to see the likes of Gueye and Coleman on, but we all know Moyes is a cautious manager by nature. However, he's the one who's got us this far, so we either do it his way and bear with him when stuff like this happens or not at all.

I appreciate BB's comments but to say that Moyes is a "very poor manager" is way wide of the mark. As Tonts says, it is him that has taken us from relegation contenders to regulars in the UEFA Cup (or whatever its called now). I personally think that he messed up today with his tactics but this doesnt make him a poor manager. I am still happy that we have him in charge and think that this season will improve soon.

No need to jump down BB's neck, he did say it was his kneejerk reaction.

All in all, i think the tactics were poor.

Hibbert again offensively is dire. Osman at RM/RW is not working. Bily is still tired from 2 seasons ago in Russia.

I honestly would like to know why Yak is not on the bench, he could have at least done a job for us. JH tackle (sic) to concede the goal was lackadaisical and summed us up today.

Pitty as when 1-0 up we looked good.

I know that Hibbert has received a lot of stick, and rightly so, in the past, but I thought he did very well yesterday. A lot can be said when we were more dangerous on the right flank where Hibbert made several over lapping runs, and he was more dangerous than Baines. Didn't think I was ever going to say that!

Hibbert had the best game he has had since I can remember, he got down the wing and got some great tackles in probably even suprised his own manager. The main problem he has is that when he was having this great game is that he doesnt have the skill to pick people out with his crosses he just seems to thump them in to the box and not look up and try and hit someone in space. Its a shame as he was great yesterday

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

I think we'd be better if Moyes had a go, rather than play the percentage option like he does. He's still trying to make us hard to beat by the looks of it sometimes instead of making us more exciting. I can accept losing if I've been entertained, and that at the end of the day, is surely why we watch football. The first derby last season is a great example of playing wonderful football yet losing. Surely we don't watch it to sit or stand grimacing at what might have been or could be. Moyes must read forums. He must read the views of the fans. Any manager worth his salt must need feedback, yet still he plays the same players and gets the same results.
Granted, we don't have cash, but a price tag doesn't make a player good. The player does, and we have damn good players, and potential.
I don't always buy that we are punching above our weight. Our team is full of Internationals. Winning the league would be punching above our weight. 5th at the time was about right I felt. Coming in at around 6th or 7th would be about right now being that City are now a super force. 8th, is a step backwards and failure. Our sights this year might be better served hoping for a cup win, and hoping we get the luck of the draw.

Most of us would agree that England are not he best international team at the moment. I expect that you would find it hard to disagree.

So given that, and being honest, how many of our players should be in the England first 11? I can think only think of Heitinga (if played in the right position).

There is a big difference between being an international and being worthy of being described as 'international class'.

Firstly, England are a lot better than the WC made them look, though they are no bench mark for International standards. Spains team is predominantly constructed of Barcelona players, and their advantage isn't necessarily that they are individually better, which they may be, but that they play as a team, because they 'are' a team. 7 out of 11 to be precise.

Having said that, we play in England, so I guess you could say that those who stand out in the league as being 'great players' would surely have a competetive chance of being picked for England, should their nationality be deemed English.

Of our players, the following are, or have been, 'full' internationals:

Howard - USA
Jagielka - England
Baines - England
Neville - England
Heitinga - Nederlands
Yobo - Nigeria
Anichebe - Nigeria
Yakubu - Nigeria
Fellaini - Belgium
Bilyaletdinov - Russia
Cahill - Australia
Saha - France
Distin - France
Pienaar - South Africa
Mucha - Slovakia

Youth etc :

Shane Duffy - N Ireland
Seamus Coleman - Rep Ireland
Wallace - Rep Ireland
Mustafi - Germany
Rodwell - England
Vaughan - England
Gueye - France
Silva - Portugal
Baxter - England
Arteta - Spain

Not included for International duty as far as I know:

Osman - English
Hibbert - English
Agard - English
Beckford - Can play for Jamaica, Granada, or England lol.

When I said our team was full of Internationals, I appreciate that each might not be the greatest player in the world, but we have the team we have, and it is fair testament to Moyes and Kenwright that we do. The England team aren't successful for many reasons, but one reason might be that they are a team full of players who play in the top teams in the league, and might not even be as good as some of the other players, but they are in the spotlight, so get picked. Would any of them make a huge difference to Everton?

So we agree then.

Statman wrote:

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

BB wrote:

Statman wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Clearly we are not as good as we think we are....

KoT, we all (I assume) know that we punch above our weight. We have got a hard-working squad with a smattering of talent. For most of us, not having what became a perennial survival battle is fantastic but let's not delude ourselves.................Chelsea's goal difference after just 2 games is probably better than what ours will be after 38 games.

Let's not forget, they also finished off the last 3 League games of last season with an aggregate of 17-0.

I think we'd be better if Moyes had a go, rather than play the percentage option like he does. He's still trying to make us hard to beat by the looks of it sometimes instead of making us more exciting. I can accept losing if I've been entertained, and that at the end of the day, is surely why we watch football. The first derby last season is a great example of playing wonderful football yet losing. Surely we don't watch it to sit or stand grimacing at what might have been or could be. Moyes must read forums. He must read the views of the fans. Any manager worth his salt must need feedback, yet still he plays the same players and gets the same results.
Granted, we don't have cash, but a price tag doesn't make a player good. The player does, and we have damn good players, and potential.
I don't always buy that we are punching above our weight. Our team is full of Internationals. Winning the league would be punching above our weight. 5th at the time was about right I felt. Coming in at around 6th or 7th would be about right now being that City are now a super force. 8th, is a step backwards and failure. Our sights this year might be better served hoping for a cup win, and hoping we get the luck of the draw.

Most of us would agree that England are not he best international team at the moment. I expect that you would find it hard to disagree.

So given that, and being honest, how many of our players should be in the England first 11? I can think only think of Heitinga (if played in the right position).

There is a big difference between being an international and being worthy of being described as 'international class'.

Firstly, England are a lot better than the WC made them look, though they are no bench mark for International standards. Spains team is predominantly constructed of Barcelona players, and their advantage isn't necessarily that they are individually better, which they may be, but that they play as a team, because they 'are' a team. 7 out of 11 to be precise.

Having said that, we play in England, so I guess you could say that those who stand out in the league as being 'great players' would surely have a competetive chance of being picked for England, should their nationality be deemed English.

Of our players, the following are, or have been, 'full' internationals:

Howard - USA
Jagielka - England
Baines - England
Neville - England
Heitinga - Nederlands
Yobo - Nigeria
Anichebe - Nigeria
Yakubu - Nigeria
Fellaini - Belgium
Bilyaletdinov - Russia
Cahill - Australia
Saha - France
Distin - France
Pienaar - South Africa
Mucha - Slovakia

Youth etc :

Shane Duffy - N Ireland
Seamus Coleman - Rep Ireland
Wallace - Rep Ireland
Mustafi - Germany
Rodwell - England
Vaughan - England
Gueye - France
Silva - Portugal
Baxter - England
Arteta - Spain

Not included for International duty as far as I know:

Osman - English
Hibbert - English
Agard - English
Beckford - Can play for Jamaica, Granada, or England lol.

When I said our team was full of Internationals, I appreciate that each might not be the greatest player in the world, but we have the team we have, and it is fair testament to Moyes and Kenwright that we do. The England team aren't successful for many reasons, but one reason might be that they are a team full of players who play in the top teams in the league, and might not even be as good as some of the other players, but they are in the spotlight, so get picked. Would any of them make a huge difference to Everton?

So we agree then.

Never ........ why I'd rather ..........................................

Wolves = pub team. They out-Evertoned us as per the way we used to play a few short years ago.

They came for a point and got what they wanted. The length of time their keeper was taking over goal-kicks before we were 1-0 up was criminal and he should be hanged for it along with Mason for not penalising him.

We are desperate for a strike force. The instruction yet again must be don't shoot at all costs.

The referee's a wanker.

Where's the Huddersfield match thread Pres??