Everton - Fulham

I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

I missed that we missed Onana because he was missing. That in itself is testament to the half-eye I was keeping on the game, and possibly the fact I got 'Pandemic' in the 'have a drink every time this word is said in the speech' game which kept me much busier than I'd expected. Is he injured?

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

I missed that we missed Onana because he was missing. That in itself is testament to the half-eye I was keeping on the game, and possibly the fact I got 'Pandemic' in the 'have a drink every time this word is said in the speech' game which kept me much busier than I'd expected. Is he injured?

Oh how I (don't) miss drinking games.

Yeah, he has groin knack. Not sure how serious it is.

Lets face it, we are fucked. Looking at the next 6 fixtures its almost certain we will lose all of them. Final game (probably for a very long time) in the prem will be Bournemouth, not even sure we can win that. Ladbrokes still have us 23/20 to go down. Astonishing odds!! Totally fucking gutted!!!!!!!

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

I missed that we missed Onana because he was missing. That in itself is testament to the half-eye I was keeping on the game, and possibly the fact I got 'Pandemic' in the 'have a drink every time this word is said in the speech' game which kept me much busier than I'd expected. Is he injured?

Oh how I (don't) miss drinking games.

Yeah, he has groin knack. Not sure how serious it is.

There is one aspect of my life which generally draws total admiration (and perhaps regret/envy) is that I am still meeting most of my Uni 1st XV from 1981 (group of 12) - so 40plus years. In the memory of one of us who died in the mid noughties we decided to walk Offa's Dyke over 3-4 years meeting for weekends.

Anyway week before Easter we had the Spring 2023 walk and Saturday evening we got into the games night...

If you can relate to Ben_Hur being in the Slave Galleon we played Buzz at varying levels ...

Buzz - reverse on 7 divisible by 7 or any number containing 7 with a change of direction (standard speed)
FizzBuzz - buzz as above and a Fizz on any number contains 5 divisible by 5 and no change in direction (flank speed)
FizzusBuzzus - As above but we had to use Roman Numerals (attack speed)

and finally full ramming speed Silent FizzBuzz (the absolute killer)

Each mistake would be minimum a quarter of a pint

As I reflect it is the closest thing I know to equate to a drug free human euthanasia. Everyone quickly slips away quietly in peace surrounded by friends. We finished at 0500.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

I missed that we missed Onana because he was missing. That in itself is testament to the half-eye I was keeping on the game, and possibly the fact I got 'Pandemic' in the 'have a drink every time this word is said in the speech' game which kept me much busier than I'd expected. Is he injured?

Oh how I (don't) miss drinking games.

Yeah, he has groin knack. Not sure how serious it is.

Mate, I barely drink any more. Two young kids, burgeoning middle age and a cost of living crisis have served to put me comfortably in the lightweight category. However we were kid free, had a hotel room on site and there was a free bar, so I let my hair down a little and enjoyed the festivities. Sometime around 9pm my wife said we should have a selfie and the sight of myself in the front-facing iphone camera rather sobered me up. I realised I was going to waste a precious night off with too much booze and a hangover so switched to soft drinks and took to the dancefloor to sweat it out. Great decision. Still had a brilliant night and was able to observe the 'Oliver Reed level' chaos of the free bar wreak havoc. Shirts torn off, ties round heads, and around midnight a shout of 'lets get in the river!' a couple of wives got involved at this point and the river was left undisturbed. Lasted till the end, had a quick gin nightcap and enjoyed a good night's sleep. Some seriously unwell-looking folks at breakfast the next morning.

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

I missed that we missed Onana because he was missing. That in itself is testament to the half-eye I was keeping on the game, and possibly the fact I got 'Pandemic' in the 'have a drink every time this word is said in the speech' game which kept me much busier than I'd expected. Is he injured?

Oh how I (don't) miss drinking games.

Yeah, he has groin knack. Not sure how serious it is.

Mate, I barely drink any more. Two young kids, burgeoning middle age and a cost of living crisis have served to put me comfortably in the lightweight category. However we were kid free, had a hotel room on site and there was a free bar, so I let my hair down a little and enjoyed the festivities. Sometime around 9pm my wife said we should have a selfie and the sight of myself in the front-facing iphone camera rather sobered me up. I realised I was going to waste a precious night off with too much booze and a hangover so switched to soft drinks and took to the dancefloor to sweat it out. Great decision. Still had a brilliant night and was able to observe the 'Oliver Reed level' chaos of the free bar wreak havoc. Shirts torn off, ties round heads, and around midnight a shout of 'lets get in the river!' a couple of wives got involved at this point and the river was left undisturbed. Lasted till the end, had a quick gin nightcap and enjoyed a good night's sleep. Some seriously unwell-looking folks at breakfast the next morning.

Reading between the lines, I think you might have a nervous couple of weeks contemplating the potential arrival of number 3 in early January! In which case let me be the first….

Da Judge wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

I missed that we missed Onana because he was missing. That in itself is testament to the half-eye I was keeping on the game, and possibly the fact I got 'Pandemic' in the 'have a drink every time this word is said in the speech' game which kept me much busier than I'd expected. Is he injured?

Oh how I (don't) miss drinking games.

Yeah, he has groin knack. Not sure how serious it is.

Mate, I barely drink any more. Two young kids, burgeoning middle age and a cost of living crisis have served to put me comfortably in the lightweight category. However we were kid free, had a hotel room on site and there was a free bar, so I let my hair down a little and enjoyed the festivities. Sometime around 9pm my wife said we should have a selfie and the sight of myself in the front-facing iphone camera rather sobered me up. I realised I was going to waste a precious night off with too much booze and a hangover so switched to soft drinks and took to the dancefloor to sweat it out. Great decision. Still had a brilliant night and was able to observe the 'Oliver Reed level' chaos of the free bar wreak havoc. Shirts torn off, ties round heads, and around midnight a shout of 'lets get in the river!' a couple of wives got involved at this point and the river was left undisturbed. Lasted till the end, had a quick gin nightcap and enjoyed a good night's sleep. Some seriously unwell-looking folks at breakfast the next morning.

Reading between the lines, I think you might have a nervous couple of weeks contemplating the potential arrival of number 3 in early January! In which case let me be the first….

Well done Tonts (for knowing when to stop, not for the impending arrival of number 3.) I was there myself once. My eldest was born two weeks after my 30th birthday. So my wild days basically lasted to the very end of my 20's, and then it all changed overnight. Once my eldest was born, I realised I now had some purpose in life beyond simply living it up, and found the transition from party animal to doting family man surprisingly easy, almost natural.

Trouble is, I still considered myself to be a drinker. So whenever the opportunity arose for me to let my hair down, I would simply forget that I hadn't been in the game for years. Hangovers that I used to be able to shake off by the following morning started to last for a whole day, then two days, then longer.

I then got a job that provided me with the opportunity to go to the London office whenever I wanted, and booze it up for free (usually on a supplier's tab, as they were always in and around our London office.) Fantastic, an opportunity to revisit one of the highlights of my early career days - nights out in London. Trouble is, in my early 40's I found it very difficult to stay awake on the train back. At least twice I missed MK station on the way home and woke up in Northampton, where the train terminated. As I was invariably on the last train out of Euston, this would then result in both a £40 cab journey back to MK and the wrath of my missus, at a time when we were essentially a single income family and money was extremely tight.

So yeah, it's better to know when to stop. It's no different to the arl fella playing a game of footy once every 6 months and thinking he can still play like he's in his teens, only to tear every muscle in his legs and not stop aching for a week.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Da Judge wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:I was at a wedding on Saturday so only had half an eye on the game. Strikes me as the past two performances underline not just the importance of abdoulaye doucoure but the severe limitiations of our squad. We'd basically been playing steady if unspectacular football up until the Doucoure ban, should have beaten spurs really. The very settled midfield 3 were key to this, but throw that out and we look all at sea. Looking at our remaining fixtures is a bit of a sickener, tbh.

Exactly. Onana was missing on Saturday as well. Which goes to show just how reliant we are on our first XI (or maybe our best 13 or 14 players) not getting crocked. Squad depth is embarrassingly and negligently shallow.

I missed that we missed Onana because he was missing. That in itself is testament to the half-eye I was keeping on the game, and possibly the fact I got 'Pandemic' in the 'have a drink every time this word is said in the speech' game which kept me much busier than I'd expected. Is he injured?

Oh how I (don't) miss drinking games.

Yeah, he has groin knack. Not sure how serious it is.

Mate, I barely drink any more. Two young kids, burgeoning middle age and a cost of living crisis have served to put me comfortably in the lightweight category. However we were kid free, had a hotel room on site and there was a free bar, so I let my hair down a little and enjoyed the festivities. Sometime around 9pm my wife said we should have a selfie and the sight of myself in the front-facing iphone camera rather sobered me up. I realised I was going to waste a precious night off with too much booze and a hangover so switched to soft drinks and took to the dancefloor to sweat it out. Great decision. Still had a brilliant night and was able to observe the 'Oliver Reed level' chaos of the free bar wreak havoc. Shirts torn off, ties round heads, and around midnight a shout of 'lets get in the river!' a couple of wives got involved at this point and the river was left undisturbed. Lasted till the end, had a quick gin nightcap and enjoyed a good night's sleep. Some seriously unwell-looking folks at breakfast the next morning.

Reading between the lines, I think you might have a nervous couple of weeks contemplating the potential arrival of number 3 in early January! In which case let me be the first….

Well done Tonts (for knowing when to stop, not for the impending arrival of number 3.) I was there myself once. My eldest was born two weeks after my 30th birthday. So my wild days basically lasted to the very end of my 20's, and then it all changed overnight. Once my eldest was born, I realised I now had some purpose in life beyond simply living it up, and found the transition from party animal to doting family man surprisingly easy, almost natural.

Trouble is, I still considered myself to be a drinker. So whenever the opportunity arose for me to let my hair down, I would simply forget that I hadn't been in the game for years. Hangovers that I used to be able to shake off by the following morning started to last for a whole day, then two days, then longer.

I then got a job that provided me with the opportunity to go to the London office whenever I wanted, and booze it up for free (usually on a supplier's tab, as they were always in and around our London office.) Fantastic, an opportunity to revisit one of the highlights of my early career days - nights out in London. Trouble is, in my early 40's I found it very difficult to stay awake on the train back. At least twice I missed miss MK station on the way home and woke up in Northampton, where the train terminated. As I was invariably on the last train out of Euston, this would then require both a £40 cab journey back to MK and the wrath of my missus, at a time when we were essentially a single income family and money was extremely tight.

So yeah, it's better to know when to stop. It's no different to the arl fella playing a game of footy once every 6 months and thinking he can still play like he's in his teens, only to tear every muscle in his legs and not stop aching for a week.

Judge, you're in the right profession.  

Rotts, I hear you and also I've not long started playing football again after 8 years* and I resmeble that remark extremely accurately. There are few things more humbling than in your head thinking 'I'm winning this ball all day long' and then finding yourself not just not winning it, but a yard away from it. Ah the ravages of age!

*At least I was until some kopite knackered my knee a month back.

callmebubbles wrote:Lets face it, we are fucked. Looking at the next 6 fixtures its almost certain we will lose all of them. Final game (probably for a very long time) in the prem will be Bournemouth, not even sure we can win that. Ladbrokes still have us 23/20 to go down. Astonishing odds!!  Totally fucking gutted!!!!!!!

I reckon two more wins might be enough. I don't know where they are coming from though. I can't even see us beating Bournemouth right now.

Armchair wrote:

callmebubbles wrote:Lets face it, we are fucked. Looking at the next 6 fixtures its almost certain we will lose all of them. Final game (probably for a very long time) in the prem will be Bournemouth, not even sure we can win that. Ladbrokes still have us 23/20 to go down. Astonishing odds!!  Totally fucking gutted!!!!!!!

I reckon two more wins might be enough. I don't know where they are coming from though. I can't even see us beating Bournemouth right now.

If I were a gambling man, I'd be interested in knowing what the odds were on us not winning another game this season.

Armchair wrote:

callmebubbles wrote:Lets face it, we are fucked. Looking at the next 6 fixtures its almost certain we will lose all of them. Final game (probably for a very long time) in the prem will be Bournemouth, not even sure we can win that. Ladbrokes still have us 23/20 to go down. Astonishing odds!!  Totally fucking gutted!!!!!!!

I reckon two more wins might be enough. I don't know where they are coming from though. I can't even see us beating Bournemouth right now.

I agree, I can't see us beating Bournemouth right now. They're doing really well, winning 3 of their last 4, and are 6 points clear of the relegation zone.
Fortunately, we don't need to beat Bournemouth right now. We play them on the last day of the season.
Bournemouth's next games are Wet Spam, Southampton, Leeds and Chelsea. They'll be safe long before they visit Goodison, and - hopefully - will be mentally on the beach.

I think Southampton are doomed; and Leicester are in real trouble. A few other teams have started pulling away, leaving Forest, Leeds and us to battle it out for the final relegation spot.
Leeds have the toughest fixtures, but they have 2 more points in the bank. On the other hand, they've just had another spanking, so morale will be low...

fourdoors wrote:

Armchair wrote:

callmebubbles wrote:Lets face it, we are fucked. Looking at the next 6 fixtures its almost certain we will lose all of them. Final game (probably for a very long time) in the prem will be Bournemouth, not even sure we can win that. Ladbrokes still have us 23/20 to go down. Astonishing odds!!  Totally fucking gutted!!!!!!!

I reckon two more wins might be enough. I don't know where they are coming from though. I can't even see us beating Bournemouth right now.

I agree, I can't see us beating Bournemouth right now. They're doing really well, winning 3 of their last 4, and are 6 points clear of the relegation zone.
Fortunately, we don't need to beat Bournemouth right now. We play them on the last day of the season.
Bournemouth's next games are Wet Spam, Southampton, Leeds and Chelsea. They'll be safe long before they visit Goodison, and - hopefully - will be mentally on the beach.

I think Southampton are doomed; and Leicester are in real trouble. A few other teams have started pulling away, leaving Forest, Leeds and us to battle it out for the final relegation spot.
Leeds have the toughest fixtures, but they have 2 more points in the bank. On the other hand, they've just had another spanking, so morale will be low...

Our big problem - obviously - is our squad, compared to last season. The Fulham game shows how dependent we are on having our key players fit and available. No Onana, no Duke, no Coleman and Dyche seems to have very few options. Patterson looks awful to be honest, and we know Myko and Godfrey are pretty shit, so the defence is getting shaky. In midfield, we all wondered what Onana actually did - well now we know, he kept the midfield ticking over and solid. And, although he has potential, Garner doesn't have the presence of Duke. And that's before we look at the two big changes from last season's battle - no Richarlison and no DCL.

Dyche seemed to react to our problems by changing the formation, and bringing in Maupay. I'm sure he didn't want to do that, but felt he had no choice. There are simply no players he can rely on who weren't already in his first eleven. I'd love to know what Dyche is really thinking, because he's very diplomatic. But he must be going home and kicking the cat, and screaming "you fucking cunts!" at effigies of our board. He's been totally hung out to dry. We're in a far worse position, personnel-wise, than we were this time last year, and we can;t really expect the fans to repeat the incredible, one-off, backing of the team with parades and flares.

I can't see where our next win is coming from. We might pick up the odd draw, but it might be too little, too late. Those two points that Leeds have on us are looking huge. They are in a tailspin, but we actually have to win to overhaul them. Last season we did it against Palace and against the Barcodes, this season both of those should beat us comfortably. Our game at Leicester, of course, is huge, but so are all the other games involving our relegation rivals, not least when dirty Leeds take on Leicester. Can we really expect three of the four teams around us to do worse than us over the next few weeks? It seems unlikely, especially when you take into account games against each other.

Ugh.

hairy cataract wrote:

fourdoors wrote:

Armchair wrote:

callmebubbles wrote:Lets face it, we are fucked. Looking at the next 6 fixtures its almost certain we will lose all of them. Final game (probably for a very long time) in the prem will be Bournemouth, not even sure we can win that. Ladbrokes still have us 23/20 to go down. Astonishing odds!!  Totally fucking gutted!!!!!!!

I reckon two more wins might be enough. I don't know where they are coming from though. I can't even see us beating Bournemouth right now.

I agree, I can't see us beating Bournemouth right now. They're doing really well, winning 3 of their last 4, and are 6 points clear of the relegation zone.
Fortunately, we don't need to beat Bournemouth right now. We play them on the last day of the season.
Bournemouth's next games are Wet Spam, Southampton, Leeds and Chelsea. They'll be safe long before they visit Goodison, and - hopefully - will be mentally on the beach.

I think Southampton are doomed; and Leicester are in real trouble. A few other teams have started pulling away, leaving Forest, Leeds and us to battle it out for the final relegation spot.
Leeds have the toughest fixtures, but they have 2 more points in the bank. On the other hand, they've just had another spanking, so morale will be low...

Our big problem - obviously - is our squad, compared to last season.  The Fulham game shows how dependent we are on having our key players fit and available.  No Onana, no Duke, no Coleman and Dyche seems to have very few options.  Patterson looks awful to be honest, and we know Myko and Godfrey are pretty shit, so the defence is getting shaky.  In midfield, we all wondered what Onana actually did - well now we know, he kept the midfield ticking over and solid.  And, although he has potential, Garner doesn't have the presence of Duke.  And that's before we look at the two big changes from last season's battle - no Richarlison and no DCL.

Dyche seemed to react to our problems by changing the formation, and bringing in Maupay.  I'm sure he didn't want to do that, but felt he had no choice.  There are simply no players he can rely on who weren't already in his first eleven.  I'd love to know what Dyche is really thinking, because he's very diplomatic.  But he must be going home and kicking the cat, and screaming "you fucking cunts!" at effigies of our board.  He's been totally hung out to dry.  We're in a far worse position, personnel-wise, than we were this time last year, and we can;t really expect the fans to repeat the incredible, one-off, backing of the team with parades and flares.

I can't see where our next win is coming from.  We might pick up the odd draw, but it might be too little, too late.  Those two points that Leeds have on us are looking huge.  They are in a tailspin, but we actually have to win to overhaul them.  Last season we did it against Palace and against the Barcodes, this season both of those should beat us comfortably.  Our game at Leicester, of course, is huge, but so are all the other games involving our relegation rivals, not least when dirty Leeds take on Leicester.  Can we really expect three of the four teams around us to do worse than us over the next few weeks?  It seems unlikely, especially when you take into account games against each other.

Ugh.

Everything depends on luck - good or bad - with injuries and suspensions. I'm not even thinking about DCL, anything we get out of him is a bonus. But Duke, Onana and Coleman (who has been excellent of late) are key. Duke has one game of his ban left. And Onana is the big one out of all of those. He's so much better than everyone else that I can imagine belief just drains from the rest of the team when he's not on the pitch.

Dyche's results so far - he has shown that he can somehow get points out of the limited squad he has to work with when he has enough key players available. Now let's be honest, the Fulham result is the first real shocker out of all of those, and that's largely because it's the first game in which his first-choice midfield was decimated. There is no word on how serious the Onana and Coleman injuries are, which is a concern. So we're on a tightrope. If we get some luck with injuries then we can get the points to stay up, but that's a monumental "if." It's all in the lap of the gods, but we're clearly doomed with that line-up we had on Saturday.

As well as luck it's going to come down to how rubbish everyone around us is. Every one of the 5-6 teams around us (bar forest, maybe) look capable of picking up a win or two or equally dropping like a stone and losing most of the rest of their games. What we need to make sure is that we don't put in a performance like we did against Fulham again. Lose, sure, we can take a loss, but not a cheap one like that. Have to give ourselves as much of a chance to scramble a lucky point or three. If that means sticking everyone behind the ball and playing anti-football then so be it.

hairy cataract wrote:
I'd love to know what Dyche is really thinking, because he's very diplomatic.  But he must be going home and kicking the cat, and screaming "you fucking cunts!" at effigies of our board.  He's been totally hung out to dry.

He knew what he was getting himself into. He managed Burnley in games against Everton for enough years to have at least a passing familiarity with our squad's strengths and weaknesses. He knew he was joining at the end of the transfer window and wouldn't have time to strengthen the squad, even if there had been any money available. He knew Richarlison had gone and that Gordon was going and that Moise Kean probably wasn't coming back.

He knew all that, and probably more, and yet he still joined us. And yes, he hadn't been snapped up by any other club in the preceding 8 months since Burnley sacked him, so he clearly wasn't the hottest manager in the country; and yes, he's probably earning a bit more with Everton than he would if he found work doing whatever it is that failed managers do when they can't find another job in football - join OnlyFans?

But he did join us. I'd like to think he was aware of the challenge awaiting him. True, he didn't know that DCL would be injured, but apart from that, has he had any negative surprises?

Wait till the summer transfer window closes. Then you're probably right, he may well be going home and kicking the cat. And next time, he'll know to carry the big picture of Bill a bit further before dumping it into a canal.

Tonteau wrote:As well as luck it's going to come down to how rubbish everyone around us is. Every one of the 5-6 teams around us (bar forest, maybe) look capable of picking up a win or two or equally dropping like a stone and losing most of the rest of their games. What we need to make sure is that we don't put in a performance like we did against Fulham again. Lose, sure, we can take a loss, but not a cheap one like that. Have to give ourselves as much of a chance to scramble a lucky point or three. If that means sticking everyone behind the ball and playing anti-football then so be it.

Yeah I mean, having not seen the Fulham game but knowing the line-up and the change of formation, with hindsight we should have just packed the midfield and tried to get out of that one with a 0-0. It's not just the loss of points that is damaging but also the psychological hit from losing badly at home to a mid-table team that had been in freefall.

I've been saying 37 points was the target for a while now. Looking at the current form and the remaining fixtures for both Leeds and Forest (and us) I'm now of the opinion that as few as 34 might be enough.

Leeds (29): Fulham (A), Leicester (H), Bournemouth (A), City (A), Newcastle (H), West Ham (A), Spurs (H)

Everton (27): Palace (A), Newcastle (H), Leicester (A), Brighton (A), City (H), Wolves (A), Bournemouth (H)

Forest (27): Liverpool (A), Brighton (H), Brentford (A), Southampton (H), Chelsea (A), Arsenal (H), Palace (A)

Leicester (25): Wolves (H), Leeds (A), Everton (H), Fulham (A), Liverpool (H), Newcastle (A), West Ham (H)

It's so fucking tight and all four teams are as crap as each other. We're arguably the crappiest of the lot when Onana and Duke are missing, although Leeds' defending right now is Conference standard. I would also argue that the four run-ins above are as nasty as each other (Maybe Leicester's is slightly less daunting, also Leicester are the only team with 4 home games left.) So, luck of the draw also comes into it in respect of when teams play other teams. Will Wolves and Bournemouth be on the beach when we play them? What will schizo Spurs do at Leeds on the final day? Will the Shite do us a couple more favours?

Before we play Leicester, Leeds have to play Leicester. Never have I wanted a draw so badly. Anyway, if 34 were to be enough then I see us getting the sum total of zero points from Brighton and City. Newcastle, maybe we have a slither of a chance of a draw in that one with a huge dollop of luck? If not, we need to find seven points from Palace, Leicester and Wolves away, and then Bournemouth at home.

Before the Fulham game I'd have said yeah, do-able. After the Fulham game (and in particular the line-up for that game) I have grave doubts. But the fans of the other three will be thinking exactly the same thing. Like, we've lost at home to Fulham, we haven't been fucked at home twice conceding 11 goals as Leeds have.

One thing's for sure - I'm now a big Fulham fan and a big West Ham fan (they both have to play Leicester and Leeds.) Interesting that our fate could be decided by two former managers, eh?

What a shitshow.

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:I just cannot see Leicester carrying on like they are... sooner or later they will get a pulse & thrash someone... probably us..

I can't see us getting any wins really from our games left... a couple of draw maybe, but that's not enough.

I've all but given up after watching the Fulham mess.

I'll say it again, Leeds are more of a mess than us, albeit with two extra points, and Forest look finished with the run-in they have.

As Tonts inferred above, it's not so much whether we're good enough to stay up, more a question of are there three teams even more shit than us. I get what you're saying about Leicester, it's possible they might turn it around. But I would argue that Leeds and Forest fans are every bit as depressed and resigned as we are at the moment.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:I just cannot see Leicester carrying on like they are... sooner or later they will get a pulse & thrash someone... probably us..

I can't see us getting any wins really from our games left... a couple of draw maybe, but that's not enough.

I've all but given up after watching the Fulham mess.

I'll say it again, Leeds are more of a mess than us, albeit with two extra points, and Forest look finished with the run-in they have.

As Tonts inferred above, it's not so much whether we're good enough to stay up, more a question of are there three teams even more shit than us. I get what you're saying about Leicester, it's possible they might turn it around. But I would argue that Leeds and Forest fans are every bit as depressed and resigned as we are at the moment.

By the way this isn't an attempt at excessive optimism. I think that's the reality. Southampton should be dead and buried but I tell you what, they'll be looking at us, Forest and Leeds and thinking to themselves that they're not out of it.

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:I just cannot see Leicester carrying on like they are... sooner or later they will get a pulse & thrash someone... probably us..

I can't see us getting any wins really from our games left... a couple of draw maybe, but that's not enough.

I've all but given up after watching the Fulham mess.

I'll say it again, Leeds are more of a mess than us, albeit with two extra points, and Forest look finished with the run-in they have.

As Tonts inferred above, it's not so much whether we're good enough to stay up, more a question of are there three teams even more shit than us. I get what you're saying about Leicester, it's possible they might turn it around. But I would argue that Leeds and Forest fans are every bit as depressed and resigned as we are at the moment.

we were so bad against Fulham though... Leeds will always scrape a result here & there between thrashings... Leicester will wake up.

we are buggered

Come on, we've scraped plenty of results since Dyche arrived and I don't see us being less capable of that from here on in than some of the other shite down there. Injuries permitting of course, but then that also applies to everyone else.

We're bound to be more negative about ourselves than others. When we look at our fixture list we see no hope, but when we look at Forest's, Leeds' etc, we see opportunities for them. That's natural. Fans of other teams will be doing the same in reverse.

I don't want to exaggerate our chances, we are in serious trouble and after a few weeks of cautious optimism I'm back to believing that we are, on balance of probabilities, gone. But neither do I want to overstate the abilities of our rivals. We're all as crap as each other. The Small Details Matter Dept. is going to be very busy from now until the end of the season because that's what it's going to come down to - an injury here, an early sending-off there, an own goal off a centre back's arse somewhere.

fourdoors wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:
I'd love to know what Dyche is really thinking, because he's very diplomatic.  But he must be going home and kicking the cat, and screaming "you fucking cunts!" at effigies of our board.  He's been totally hung out to dry.

He knew what he was getting himself into. He managed Burnley in games against Everton for enough years to have at least a passing familiarity with our squad's strengths and weaknesses. He knew he was joining at the end of the transfer window and wouldn't have time to strengthen the squad, even if there had been any money available. He knew Richarlison had gone and that Gordon was going and that Moise Kean probably wasn't coming back.

He knew all that, and probably more, and yet he still joined us. And yes, he hadn't been snapped up by any other club in the preceding 8 months since Burnley sacked him, so he clearly wasn't the hottest manager in the country; and yes, he's probably earning a bit more with Everton than he would if he found work doing whatever it is that failed managers do when they can't find another job in football - join OnlyFans?

But he did join us. I'd like to think he was aware of the challenge awaiting him. True, he didn't know that DCL would be injured, but apart from that, has he had any negative surprises?

Wait till the summer transfer window closes. Then you're probably right, he may well be going home and kicking the cat. And next time, he'll know to carry the big picture of Bill a bit further before dumping it into a canal.

Aye, maybe, but I'm pretty sure he would have been told there was at least a new striker incoming. I'd forgotten about Gordon when I was thinking about how much worse this season's squad was. He contributed a lot at the end of last season. I don't believe Dyche came into it thinking he'd be losing Gordon and getting zero incoming, even in his worst nightmares. Sure, he might have just seen pound signs, but he seems a fairly straight-ahead bloke, and I think he inherited a squad that was worse than he expected.