Re: Seagulls v Toffees

Knight of Thorgothshire Mon 08 May 2023, 7:51 pm

Incredible result! How we needed those three points!

Yankthattoffee Mon 08 May 2023, 7:56 pm

Armchair wrote:McNeil and Iwobi have both been excellent since Dyche came in. Probably under Frank as well but we were otherwise so poor no one really noticed. DCL played well - who'd have thought that having a decent forward helps to get results?!

What did you make of Mina?

callmebubbles Mon 08 May 2023, 8:01 pm

McNeil was powder puff and totally ineffective before SD. The fact he has played for him before seems to have galvanised him and he is a different player. Iwobi had a great start to the season but tailed off mid season. Again, SD getting the best out of him. All positives and IF Dom can stay fit there is a glimmer of hope

callmebubbles Mon 08 May 2023, 8:03 pm

Yankthattoffee wrote:
Armchair wrote:McNeil and Iwobi have both been excellent since Dyche came in. Probably under Frank as well but we were otherwise so poor no one really noticed. DCL played well - who'd have thought that having a decent forward helps to get results?!
What did you make of Mina?

He's not Keane!! Always a boost

Tonteau Mon 08 May 2023, 8:13 pm

I’m quietly pleased with how Dyche has managed Dom’s injury. Didn’t rush him back and he’s played most of the last three games. Hopefully will do the same with sir yerald.

SEFTON Mon 08 May 2023, 8:13 pm

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Anything but a loss would be a minor miracle. Although, having said that, I hope that DCL can provide that something extra at the top to get us a goal. Then, can we not concede more than a goal?

Miracles do happen Thor .UTFTs. cheers

Knight of Thorgothshire Mon 08 May 2023, 8:29 pm

SEFTON wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Anything but a loss would be a minor miracle. Although, having said that, I hope that DCL can provide that something extra at the top to get us a goal. Then, can we not concede more than a goal?

Miracles do happen Thor .UTFTs.

and

Need to do those in 5's. Very Happy

Yankthattoffee Mon 08 May 2023, 8:43 pm

and now.....City.

btw you can lay Kenneth Wolstenholme's "they think it's all over" over the top of McNeil's 5 goal, perfectly. (The Onana pass is just De Brunye=esque)

Armchair Mon 08 May 2023, 8:45 pm

Yankthattoffee wrote:
Armchair wrote:McNeil and Iwobi have both been excellent since Dyche came in. Probably under Frank as well but we were otherwise so poor no one really noticed. DCL played well - who'd have thought that having a decent forward helps to get results?!
What did you make of Mina?

Solid!

Rotterdam 1985 Mon 08 May 2023, 8:56 pm

Yankthattoffee wrote:and now.....City.

btw you can lay Kenneth Wolstenholme's "they think it's all over" over the top of McNeil's 5 goal, perfectly. (The Onana pass is just De Brunye=esque)

I said exactly this to my lad at the time. It goes in the same part of the goal and everything.

Da Judge Mon 08 May 2023, 9:05 pm

Much discussion around Teri's adherence to self-flagellation during the second half...

Rotterdam 1985 Mon 08 May 2023, 9:17 pm

That was the most ridiculously nervy 5-1 drubbing that I've ever sat through. I relaxed a bit on 70 minutes, just before our 4th goal, but I only truly started smiling when we hit injury time. With hindsight, some of that nervousness was misplaced, because that was an absolute Dyche masterclass.

First of all, don't overpress them in the first half. Just press them enough to make life uncomfortable for them in midfield, and commit bodies forward on the counter.

And then at 3-0 up, the defending of the penalty box in the second half was by design I'm sure, and not entirely because Brighton started the half fast. It made no sense to give them any opportunities to attack us in space in the second half.

Pickford is incredible, his ability to reset his feet so quickly to go the other direction when he has to is unmatched by any other keeper around. DCL was great, Iwobi too, and McNeil showed his football nous today in defence and attack.

Myko was the only one who struggled, I thought. He wasn't terrible, but he's just never going to be good enough. His strength is supposed to be 1-on-1 defending but Solly March had him on toast second half. Otherwise everyone was great - Gueye, Tarko, Mina, Garner and Patterson, none of them did anything flashy, they just did their jobs and concentrated for 90 minutes. Which is all you need when we have our firepower in front of goal. Very Happy

Play exactly the same way against City, and you never know. A free hit.

hairy cataract Mon 08 May 2023, 10:56 pm

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:That was the most ridiculously nervy 5-1 drubbing that I've ever sat through. I relaxed a bit on 70 minutes, just before our 4th goal, but I only truly started smiling when we hit injury time. With hindsight, some of that nervousness was misplaced, because that was an absolute Dyche masterclass.

First of all, don't overpress them in the first half. Just press them enough to make life uncomfortable for them in midfield, and commit bodies forward on the counter.

And then at 3-0 up, the defending of the penalty box in the second half was by design I'm sure, and not entirely because Brighton started the half fast. It made no sense to give them any opportunities to attack us in space in the second half.

Pickford is incredible, his ability to reset his feet so quickly to go the other direction when he has to is unmatched by any other keeper around. DCL was great, Iwobi too, and McNeil showed his football nous today in defence and attack.

Myko was the only one who struggled, I thought. He wasn't terrible, but he's just never going to be good enough. His strength is supposed to be 1-on-1 defending but Solly March had him on toast second half. Otherwise everyone was great - Gueye, Tarko, Mina, Garner and Patterson, none of them did anything flashy, they just did their jobs and concentrated for 90 minutes. Which is all you need when we have our firepower in front of goal.

Play exactly the same way against City, and you never know. A free hit.

Yes, good summary. I've just got back from Brighton, and that was an incredible performance - including by our fans who were as noisy as I've heard them. But, as you say, it was still very nervy.

The breaks all went our way today, but as some twat once said, it's funny how the harder I work, the luckier I get. This was a follow on from the Leicester game - a lot more attacking intent, but this time we scored more goals. The key to the shift has to be DCL. Not only does he put in so much work, but he wins balls, he keeps possession, he passes well, and he gives McNeil more space to work in because the defence are kept busy by the big centre forward.

Have to say that Brighton are brilliant. We outfought them in the first half, but their passing and movement and - above all - the way they use the width of the pitch with the wingers, is excellent. I was delighted to see Solly March pull up after our fourth goal because he was ripping us new arseholes every time he got the ball. Their only problem, apart from a dodgy defence, is the way they want to walk the ball in, like a junior Arsenal or City without the big hitters. Nobody wanted to take a punt from outside the box.

And finally - THEY THINK IT'S ALL OVER! was exactly what I thought too as that fifth one went in. Carbon copy of a shot.

Fucking hell, I can't remember yhe last time I saw us win away. I think it might have been in the 1930s.

PS - I was looking at the Brighton fans' forum and, while some praised the noise of our fans, they all fucking HATED us singing Spirit of the Blues non-stop, especially the WOOOOOO bit. So it clearly does its job.

Rotterdam 1985 Tue 09 May 2023, 9:47 am

hairy cataract wrote:The key to the shift has to be DCL. Not only does he put in so much work, but he wins balls, he keeps possession, he passes well, and he gives McNeil more space to work in because the defence are kept busy by the big centre forward.

We will never know for sure. But I suspect that we'd be somewhere in the West Ham/Bournemouth area of the table by now if Dyche had had either DCL, or any meaningful striker available to us for most of his time with us. The Maupay signing was a catastrophe. I still consider it to have been sheer negligence on the part of the board that they didn't give us a proper back-up to a striker with known injury problems. They had two windows to do something about that.

It appears that kudos is due to Dyche for not bringing him back until he was 100%, as though he was playing russian roulette with fate. But I recall last season, DCL coming back from a period out and he looked like a carthorse, he was nowhere near match fit. He looks absolutely on it right now. What a difference he makes.

hairy cataract Tue 09 May 2023, 10:09 am

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:The key to the shift has to be DCL. Not only does he put in so much work, but he wins balls, he keeps possession, he passes well, and he gives McNeil more space to work in because the defence are kept busy by the big centre forward.

We will never know for sure. But I suspect that we'd be somewhere in the West Ham/Bournemouth area of the table by now if Dyche had had either DCL, or any meaningful striker available to us for most of his time with us. The Maupay signing was a catastrophe. I still consider it to have been sheer negligence on the part of the board that they didn't give us a proper back-up to a striker with known injury problems. They had two windows to do something about that.

It appears that kudos is due to Dyche for not bringing him back until he was 100%, as though he was playing russian roulette with fate. But I recall last season, DCL coming back from a period out and he looked like a carthorse, he was nowhere near match fit. He looks absolutely on it right now. What a difference he makes.

Fair point. DCL does look in tip-top condition. Even his mane is glossy and full. He's like a thoroughbred racehorse with a ready supply of oats, rather than a carthorse.

Tonteau Tue 09 May 2023, 12:10 pm

Was thinking yesterday, after Brighton battered us 4-1 at home earlier in the season, what odds would you have got for us to get the aggregate win?

Rotterdam 1985 Tue 09 May 2023, 12:41 pm

Tonteau wrote:Was thinking yesterday, after Brighton battered us 4-1 at home earlier in the season, what odds would you have got for us to get the aggregate win?

About 50,000/1 I would say. I think part of my nervousness at 3-0 and 4-1 last night was remembering how quickly they went from 1-0 to 4-0 at GP. Still scarred by that game, I was probably guilty of not recognising how good Brighton are at that time.

A couple of hot takes as I continue to muse over that performance this morning...

1. McNeil has been twice the player for us this season that Gordon was last year. I thought we'd really miss Gordon's workrate but McNeil at least matches that. Yet in front of goal they don't compare, McNeil is a veritable assassin compared to Gordon, in terms of both goals and final balls. So we can all admit we were wrong, can't we? I think we've all doubted/mocked McNeil to some degree this season. And also, while I will stick it to the club for this season's unforgivable striker recruitment failings forever more, they did well out of the McNeil/Gordon swap.

2. Does anyone else get Bracewell vibes when they watch Garner? He gives us something a little bit different, I'm very happy he's getting some starts. Composure on the ball, and a little bit of vision, plus a good work ethic. He could be a nice player for us for a few years, and if he's half the player Bracewell was then he'll do alright. Another recruitment win. Does a combo of McNeil and Garner make up for spending actual pounds on Maupay? No, but credit where it's due all the same.

Oh, and a Brighton comment - I agree with hairy, they are brilliant. We really did mug them last night but they play some great football. That Ferguson will be some player. It doesn't seem to matter when their players move on to bigger clubs as they've got a never-ending production line like the Generation Game conveyor belt (in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were to sign a cuddly toy from Paraguay who turns out to be shit-hot in front of goal.) But I'll be amazed if they keep MacAllister and Mitoma this summer. They both have City written all over them, Mitoma in particular.

hairy cataract Tue 09 May 2023, 1:12 pm

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Was thinking yesterday, after Brighton battered us 4-1 at home earlier in the season, what odds would you have got for us to get the aggregate win?

About 50,000/1 I would say. I think part of my nervousness at 3-0 and 4-1 last night was remembering how quickly they went from 1-0 to 4-0 at GP. Still scarred by that game, I was probably guilty of not recognising how good Brighton are at that time.

A couple of hot takes as I continue to muse over that performance this morning...

1. McNeil has been twice the player for us this season that Gordon was last year. I thought we'd really miss Gordon's workrate but McNeil at least matches that. Yet in front of goal they don't compare, McNeil is a veritable assassin compared to Gordon, in terms of both goals and final balls. So we can all admit we were wrong, can't we? I think we've all doubted/mocked McNeil to some degree this season. And also, while I will stick it to the club for this season's unforgivable striker recruitment failings forever more, they did well out of the McNeil/Gordon swap.

2. Does anyone else get Bracewell vibes when they watch Garner? He gives us something a little bit different, I'm very happy he's getting some starts. Composure on the ball, and a little bit of vision, plus a good work ethic. He could be a nice player for us for a few years, and if he's half the player Bracewell was then he'll do alright. Another recruitment win. Does a combo of McNeil and Garner make up for spending actual pounds on Maupay? No, but credit where it's due all the same.

Oh, and a Brighton comment - I agree with hairy, they are brilliant. We really did mug them last night but they play some great football. That Ferguson will be some player. It doesn't seem to matter when their players move on to bigger clubs as they've got a never-ending production line like the Generation Game conveyor belt (in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were to sign a cuddly toy from Paraguay who turns out to be shit-hot in front of goal.) But I'll be amazed if they keep MacAllister and Mitoma this summer. They both have City written all over them, Mitoma in particular.

I hadn't thought about it as a McNeil/Gordon swap, but you're bang on there. McNeil has done way more for us than Gordon did, and he's not much older/further on in his career.
So it turns out we're brilliant in the transfer market after all.

Interesting though that the Brighton fans - it turns out - are a bit down on Mitoma at the moment. They think he's faded as the season goes on. I've just watched the fully 90 minutes on the OS (I did fast forward quite a bit to be fair), and Patterson did shut him down after the first 20 minutes or so. You're right about Ferguson, he's very good, but I wonder if this is peak Brighton. You can only rebuild so many times surely? Watching the game again, I think their manager got it wrong and should shoulder some of the blame for that result, and their defence looked dogshit, including the goalie.

So my prediction is that, if we don't go down, we'll finish above Brighton next season. And Brentford and Fulham. In fact, we should be aiming for the European places.

Rotterdam 1985 Tue 09 May 2023, 1:40 pm

hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Was thinking yesterday, after Brighton battered us 4-1 at home earlier in the season, what odds would you have got for us to get the aggregate win?

About 50,000/1 I would say. I think part of my nervousness at 3-0 and 4-1 last night was remembering how quickly they went from 1-0 to 4-0 at GP. Still scarred by that game, I was probably guilty of not recognising how good Brighton are at that time.

A couple of hot takes as I continue to muse over that performance this morning...

1. McNeil has been twice the player for us this season that Gordon was last year. I thought we'd really miss Gordon's workrate but McNeil at least matches that. Yet in front of goal they don't compare, McNeil is a veritable assassin compared to Gordon, in terms of both goals and final balls. So we can all admit we were wrong, can't we? I think we've all doubted/mocked McNeil to some degree this season. And also, while I will stick it to the club for this season's unforgivable striker recruitment failings forever more, they did well out of the McNeil/Gordon swap.

2. Does anyone else get Bracewell vibes when they watch Garner? He gives us something a little bit different, I'm very happy he's getting some starts. Composure on the ball, and a little bit of vision, plus a good work ethic. He could be a nice player for us for a few years, and if he's half the player Bracewell was then he'll do alright. Another recruitment win. Does a combo of McNeil and Garner make up for spending actual pounds on Maupay? No, but credit where it's due all the same.

Oh, and a Brighton comment - I agree with hairy, they are brilliant. We really did mug them last night but they play some great football. That Ferguson will be some player. It doesn't seem to matter when their players move on to bigger clubs as they've got a never-ending production line like the Generation Game conveyor belt (in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were to sign a cuddly toy from Paraguay who turns out to be shit-hot in front of goal.) But I'll be amazed if they keep MacAllister and Mitoma this summer. They both have City written all over them, Mitoma in particular.

I hadn't thought about it as a McNeil/Gordon swap, but you're bang on there. McNeil has done way more for us than Gordon did, and he's not much older/further on in his career.
So it turns out we're brilliant in the transfer market after all.

Interesting though that the Brighton fans - it turns out - are a bit down on Mitoma at the moment. They think he's faded as the season goes on. I've just watched the fully 90 minutes on the OS (I did fast forward quite a bit to be fair), and Patterson did shut him down after the first 20 minutes or so. You're right about Ferguson, he's very good, but I wonder if this is peak Brighton. You can only rebuild so many times surely? Watching the game again, I think their manager got it wrong and should shoulder some of the blame for that result, and their defence looked dogshit, including the goalie.

So my prediction is that, if we don't go down, we'll finish above Brighton next season. And Brentford and Fulham. In fact, we should be aiming for the European places.

That is interesting, because he's been really effective and creative every time I've seen him play this season. You're right though, he did go a bit quiet last night after being their preferred route of attack to start with.

Maybe we are indeed watching peak Brighton, but I've got a lot of time for them whatever happens. Small clubs hogging PL places for several seasons usually annoy me - you know, have your one or two seasons in the sun and then fuck off, let someone else have a go - but they're a bit different, and their recruitment means that they could hang around in the top 8/10 for a good while yet.

As for our recruitment - Onana and McNeil, both good signings for the money, both still kids really. Tarko for nowt and Garner and Gueye for relative pennies? Yeah that was a good summer of recruitment, all utterly overshadowed by what they did/didn't do in respect of our striker situation.

Rotterdam 1985 Tue 09 May 2023, 2:55 pm

"On The Road"

The kid's disbelieving face (11:30) - that was all of us, at 3-0 up.

Armchair Tue 09 May 2023, 3:53 pm

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:"On The Road"

The kid's disbelieving face (11:30) - that was all of us, at 3-0 up.

13:35 reveals that the pink socks aren't actually socks, they're just weird sleeve things that go over shorter white socks. And DCL has cut holes in the back of his 'sleeves', which I can only assume is to accommodate his bulging calf muscles or allow easy access for key hole surgery next time he pulls up during training.

Goodison_Gringo Tue 09 May 2023, 5:43 pm

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Was thinking yesterday, after Brighton battered us 4-1 at home earlier in the season, what odds would you have got for us to get the aggregate win?

About 50,000/1 I would say. I think part of my nervousness at 3-0 and 4-1 last night was remembering how quickly they went from 1-0 to 4-0 at GP. Still scarred by that game, I was probably guilty of not recognising how good Brighton are at that time.

A couple of hot takes as I continue to muse over that performance this morning...

1. McNeil has been twice the player for us this season that Gordon was last year. I thought we'd really miss Gordon's workrate but McNeil at least matches that. Yet in front of goal they don't compare, McNeil is a veritable assassin compared to Gordon, in terms of both goals and final balls. So we can all admit we were wrong, can't we? I think we've all doubted/mocked McNeil to some degree this season. And also, while I will stick it to the club for this season's unforgivable striker recruitment failings forever more, they did well out of the McNeil/Gordon swap.

2. Does anyone else get Bracewell vibes when they watch Garner? He gives us something a little bit different, I'm very happy he's getting some starts. Composure on the ball, and a little bit of vision, plus a good work ethic. He could be a nice player for us for a few years, and if he's half the player Bracewell was then he'll do alright. Another recruitment win. Does a combo of McNeil and Garner make up for spending actual pounds on Maupay? No, but credit where it's due all the same.

Oh, and a Brighton comment - I agree with hairy, they are brilliant. We really did mug them last night but they play some great football. That Ferguson will be some player. It doesn't seem to matter when their players move on to bigger clubs as they've got a never-ending production line like the Generation Game conveyor belt (in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were to sign a cuddly toy from Paraguay who turns out to be shit-hot in front of goal.) But I'll be amazed if they keep MacAllister and Mitoma this summer. They both have City written all over them, Mitoma in particular.

That made me think of Southampton a few years ago. They probably weren't as good as Brighton, can't remember, but their conveyor belt was constantly been mugged, usually by the RS. It's obviously unsustainable, but what can you do? Let's see where Brighton are in 4 or 5 years.

Tonteau Tue 09 May 2023, 7:06 pm

You can add Leicester to that list. They managed selling their best and always had players earmarked to replace them but A. You can’t build anything long-term like that. And B. One bad transfer window and you can end up in the relegation dogfight.

Made 4 Gwladys Wed 17 May 2023, 7:37 am

Armchair wrote:Did anyone predict this?

I had a 0-1 win with joker.... but not a drubbing like this !! Very Happy

Made 4 Gwladys Wed 17 May 2023, 7:40 am

Yankthattoffee wrote:
Tonteau wrote:M4G owes McNeill an apology. He’s been brilliant today.

And he just fucking scored!!!

Make that 2 apologies

Sorry Dwight ... and sorry again Dwight ....

oh fuck it while I'm being silly... sorry Besic, sorry flossie, sorry Sir Alex, sorry Ian Rush, sorry Daglish.... etc etc...

I'm not really

COYB cheers

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