7 - Dwight McNeil - Hairy loves him !

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:We need to talk about Dwight McNeil.

First thing to say is that he'll be a starter for the rest of the season whether people like it or not. For three reasons - his workrate, which can never be doubted agree, but really, we have to expect that EVERY player works hard these days. This is especially true for a team fightig relegation. , the fact that Dyche trusts him, and his crossing His crossing is average, at best. He mixes crossing which sails in for a throw at the other side of the pitch with the occasional "that cross was pretty good actually". Overall though, his crosses are not that great.. We actually look like a threat at corners now. Also he put two crosses in yesterday from open play that were screaming to be tapped in. It ain't his fault that we have no strikers to get on the end of them. Agree, but there were crosses that were terrible. Also, there are times when he should put a cross in and due to his poor decision making he doesn't seem to know what to do, takes too long and the defender simply takes the ball from him.

He's starting to remind me more and more of Kevin Kilbane - a limited winger with no pace who nevertheless tries to make the most of every last ounce of ability for the cause, works his bollocks off, and (crucially) can cross a ball. Neither player should really be anywhere near an Everton starting XI when times are good, but when we're shit and/or skint then we just have to think about maximising what we have.

I think McNeil can cross a ball better than Kilbane could. Where Kilbane was better (for us anyway) was that he performed at his highest (still moderate) level more consistently. When McNeil is bad, he's terrible. Yes, agree again. What I really like about him is that he comes in for stick, and must know when he's having a shocker, but he doesn't hide. In the shit we're in, we need brave players. Fair enough. He probably have a pretty thick skin, he needs it.

So today, after a rare but crucial win, I'm still seeing Blues on Twitter slagging him and demanding he is replaced by Gray. I find this odd - Dyche knows McNeil well, and although I'm higher than most on Gray purely as a footballer, the question is whether we can rely on him to keep his head up when things aren't going well. I'm not convinced we can, and I remain of the opinion that we might benefit more from Gray having an impact from the bench when we need him. Liverpool are getting themselves out of the shit largely by banging balls 50 yards up the pitch for Salah to latch on to and terrorise the defenders with. When needed, we could try a Lidl version of that tactic with Gray. Gray is an enigma. So much talent, but his decision making is no better than McNeil and he arguably doesn't track back as hard as McNeil, which we really need these days considering our plight. Technically Gray is 1000 times more gifted than McNeil, but mentally, I have question marks regarding Gray.

In summary, I was OK with the McNeil signing at the time. Ability-wise he's worse than I thought he'd be. Absolutely. I have wondered at times "How can this lad play in the EPL and get paid what he gets paid?" But I think he has a big heart and he has an attribute - his crossing ability - that we will be relying on for the rest of the season far more than some Blues appear to realise. If so, he really needs to improve in my opinion. So I hope he hasn't become a boo-boy at GP, because we can't afford to shoot ourselves in the foot like that. No footballer ever improved because some fat lad in Lower Bullens told him he was shite. Absolutely agree.

If your reaction to this post is "it's Dwight fucking McNeil, he's terrible, I don't want him in the team" then I do get it, honestly. But we are where we are. Unless he's injured, he's starting, and if we stay up then it could well be thanks in large part to what McNeil does for us, crazy though that may seem as a concept at times. His work rate is what saves him from sitting on the bench at a League 1 team. That and a wee bit of ability at times. He's arguably a bit of a low point in the Everton winger era to be honest.

Please don't start a similar post about Maupay...

Yankthattoffee wrote:Kilbane is a good comparison. What managers would describe as "keeping shape."
Keeps the opposition's FB in check.
His running style reminds me of someone in our history. At first I thought Alex "Chico" Scott, but he usually looked like he was falling down stairs and his legs were trying to catch up with his body.
So then I got it. Derek Temple.
Where does Gray fit in> Iwobi's slot? Iwobi is pretty much another Dwight, with more speed than he thinks he has.
It just seems to be a waste of our speediest asset.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Yankthattoffee wrote:Kilbane is a good comparison. What managers would describe as "keeping shape."
Keeps the opposition's FB in check.
His running style reminds me of someone in our history. At first I thought Alex "Chico" Scott, but he usually looked like he was falling down stairs and his legs were trying to catch up with his body.
So then I got it. Derek Temple.
Where does Gray fit in> Iwobi's slot? Iwobi is pretty much another Dwight, with more speed than he thinks he has.
It just seems to be a waste of our speediest asset.

I like Iwobi where he is right now and, I also think he's at least a level up on McNeil ability-wise. And I like his attitude as well - we all know he wants to play more centrally but the three dogs of war in the middle and Iwobi out wide is probably the most workable structure we have right now, and he seems to accept that. My lad watched a stream yesterday and said he reckons Dyche is letting Iwobi cut inside a fair bit anyway.

Quite frequently this season, until Onana found his feet, I found myself thinking that Iwobi is our best player (bar Pickford) by some distance. So I think our starting XI, injuries aside, is pretty clear. Gray doing some damage late from off the bench might nick us a point or two here or there.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Yankthattoffee wrote:Kilbane is a good comparison. What managers would describe as "keeping shape."
Keeps the opposition's FB in check.
His running style reminds me of someone in our history. At first I thought Alex "Chico" Scott, but he usually looked like he was falling down stairs and his legs were trying to catch up with his body.
So then I got it. Derek Temple.
Where does Gray fit in> Iwobi's slot? Iwobi is pretty much another Dwight, with more speed than he thinks he has.
It just seems to be a waste of our speediest asset.

I like Iwobi where he is right now and, I also think he's at least a level up on McNeil ability-wise. And I like his attitude as well - we all know he wants to play more centrally but the three dogs of war in the middle and Iwobi out wide is probably the most workable structure we have right now, and he seems to accept that. My lad watched a stream yesterday and said he reckons Dyche is letting Iwobi cut inside a fair bit anyway.

Quite frequently this season, until Onana found his feet, I found myself thinking that Iwobi is our best player (bar Pickford) by some distance. So I think our starting XI, injuries aside, is pretty clear. Gray doing some damage late from off the bench might nick us a point or two here or there.

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Yankthattoffee wrote:Kilbane is a good comparison. What managers would describe as "keeping shape."
Keeps the opposition's FB in check.
His running style reminds me of someone in our history. At first I thought Alex "Chico" Scott, but he usually looked like he was falling down stairs and his legs were trying to catch up with his body.
So then I got it. Derek Temple.
Where does Gray fit in> Iwobi's slot? Iwobi is pretty much another Dwight, with more speed than he thinks he has.
It just seems to be a waste of our speediest asset.

I like Iwobi where he is right now and, I also think he's at least a level up on McNeil ability-wise. And I like his attitude as well - we all know he wants to play more centrally but the three dogs of war in the middle and Iwobi out wide is probably the most workable structure we have right now, and he seems to accept that. My lad watched a stream yesterday and said he reckons Dyche is letting Iwobi cut inside a fair bit anyway.

Quite frequently this season, until Onana found his feet, I found myself thinking that Iwobi is our best player (bar Pickford) by some distance. So I think our starting XI, injuries aside, is pretty clear. Gray doing some damage late from off the bench might nick us a point or two here or there.

talking of injuries .. any news on Onana who had to go off ?... would be disasterous to lose him

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Yankthattoffee wrote:Kilbane is a good comparison. What managers would describe as "keeping shape."
Keeps the opposition's FB in check.
His running style reminds me of someone in our history. At first I thought Alex "Chico" Scott, but he usually looked like he was falling down stairs and his legs were trying to catch up with his body.
So then I got it. Derek Temple.
Where does Gray fit in> Iwobi's slot? Iwobi is pretty much another Dwight, with more speed than he thinks he has.
It just seems to be a waste of our speediest asset.

I like Iwobi where he is right now and, I also think he's at least a level up on McNeil ability-wise. And I like his attitude as well - we all know he wants to play more centrally but the three dogs of war in the middle and Iwobi out wide is probably the most workable structure we have right now, and he seems to accept that. My lad watched a stream yesterday and said he reckons Dyche is letting Iwobi cut inside a fair bit anyway.

Quite frequently this season, until Onana found his feet, I found myself thinking that Iwobi is our best player (bar Pickford) by some distance. So I think our starting XI, injuries aside, is pretty clear. Gray doing some damage late from off the bench might nick us a point or two here or there.

talking of injuries .. any news on Onana who had to go off ?... would be disasterous to lose him

Word is that he's managing a niggly knee injury. Dyche's exact words were "I think it is manageable as his fitness improves and as his game understanding improves" which, again, could be read as a bit of a pop at the medical setup and fitness program of the previous regime.

I would therefore expect Onana to be subbed off as a precaution every time we go 3-0 up from now until the end of the season.

Yankthattoffee wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Yankthattoffee wrote:Kilbane is a good comparison. What managers would describe as "keeping shape."
Keeps the opposition's FB in check.
His running style reminds me of someone in our history. At first I thought Alex "Chico" Scott, but he usually looked like he was falling down stairs and his legs were trying to catch up with his body.
So then I got it. Derek Temple.
Where does Gray fit in> Iwobi's slot? Iwobi is pretty much another Dwight, with more speed than he thinks he has.
It just seems to be a waste of our speediest asset.

I like Iwobi where he is right now and, I also think he's at least a level up on McNeil ability-wise. And I like his attitude as well - we all know he wants to play more centrally but the three dogs of war in the middle and Iwobi out wide is probably the most workable structure we have right now, and he seems to accept that. My lad watched a stream yesterday and said he reckons Dyche is letting Iwobi cut inside a fair bit anyway.

Quite frequently this season, until Onana found his feet, I found myself thinking that Iwobi is our best player (bar Pickford) by some distance. So I think our starting XI, injuries aside, is pretty clear. Gray doing some damage late from off the bench might nick us a point or two here or there.

talking of injuries .. any news on Onana who had to go off ?... would be disasterous to lose him

Word is that he's managing a niggly knee injury. Dyche's exact words were "I think it is manageable as his fitness improves and as his game understanding improves" which, again, could be read as a bit of a pop at the medical setup and fitness program of the previous regime.

I would therefore expect Onana to be subbed off as a precaution every time we go 3-0 up from now until the end of the season.

Had a quick look at the Saturday highlights. Dwight is definitely a Moyes plaer. His cross across the Park edn goal was a kick in the teeth for him when nobody made the run, but it looks like Dyche wants most players to avoid being caught on the break as has happened notoriously often.
Another chuckling moment was hearing the shriek from Seamus as he calls for the pass from Iwobi. Vintage Coleman.
A bet I might make if anyone will take it, that MoerPay will not be found in an offside poistion for the rest of the season.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Lol, Coleman has more chance of being offside.

Speaking of Maupay - when you watch him closely, it's extraordinary to think that no previous coach spotted the things he doesn't do that strikers are supposed to do, and tried to turn him into a full back or something. The way he often lays it off and then stands still when he should be on the move. The way he frequently doesn't read/gamble on crosses or passes in the box. The fact that so many of his attempts on goal are powderpuff because he hasn't got himself set first - you never see Kane or Haaland rolling a 15 yarder to the keeper like in a game of bowls. This isn't laziness, I don't think - I reckon he's a trier - but he doesn't have those fundamental instincts that strikers are supposed to have.

I can see the point of McNeil as a PL player, even though he has many deficiencies. I'm actually astounded that Maupay is playing at this level and has on several occasions prompted apparently intelligent people to spend money in order that he plays at the top level for them.

Another thing about Maupay - every team seems to improve after he leaves them. Nice finished 11th, sold Maupay, and finished 4th the following season. Brest, in France, and Brentford both got promoted within two seasons of binning him off. Brighton sold him this summer and are now 7 points off a CL place with two games in hand. Extraordinary. He's not only shit, he's also a jinx. I can only assume he interviews, like, really well.

We don't need to sign anyone in the summer, just sell Maupay and we're guaranteed top 6.

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Lol, Coleman has more chance of being offside.

Speaking of Maupay - when you watch him closely, it's extraordinary to think that no previous coach spotted the things he doesn't do that strikers are supposed to do, and tried to turn him into a full back or something. The way he often lays it off and then stands still when he should be on the move. The way he frequently doesn't read/gamble on crosses or passes in the box. The fact that so many of his attempts on goal are powderpuff because he hasn't got himself set first - you never see Kane or Haaland rolling a 15 yarder to the keeper like in a game of bowls. This isn't laziness, I don't think - I reckon he's a trier - but he doesn't have those fundamental instincts that strikers are supposed to have.

I can see the point of McNeil as a PL player, even though he has many deficiencies. I'm actually astounded that Maupay is playing at this level and has on several occasions prompted apparently intelligent people to spend money in order that he plays at the top level for them.

Another thing about Maupay - every team seems to improve after he leaves them. Nice finished 11th, sold Maupay, and finished 4th the following season. Brest, in France, and Brentford both got promoted within two seasons of binning him off. Brighton sold him this summer and are now 7 points off a CL place with two games in hand. Extraordinary. He's not only shit, he's also a jinx. I can only assume he interviews, like, really well.

We don't need to sign anyone in the summer, just sell Maupay and we're guaranteed top 6.

You're not wrong, and that's one reason why I posted "Don't make a post stating how great Maupay is" or whatever I wrote earlier in this thread.

Maupay is not a striker. Not sure what he is, but he's not a striker. As you pointed out, how often is he in the box to pouch on a cross? How about never? He's a conman really.

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Lol, Coleman has more chance of being offside.

Speaking of Maupay - when you watch him closely, it's extraordinary to think that no previous coach spotted the things he doesn't do that strikers are supposed to do, and tried to turn him into a full back or something. The way he often lays it off and then stands still when he should be on the move. The way he frequently doesn't read/gamble on crosses or passes in the box. The fact that so many of his attempts on goal are powderpuff because he hasn't got himself set first - you never see Kane or Haaland rolling a 15 yarder to the keeper like in a game of bowls. This isn't laziness, I don't think - I reckon he's a trier - but he doesn't have those fundamental instincts that strikers are supposed to have.

I can see the point of McNeil as a PL player, even though he has many deficiencies. I'm actually astounded that Maupay is playing at this level and has on several occasions prompted apparently intelligent people to spend money in order that he plays at the top level for them.

Another thing about Maupay - every team seems to improve after he leaves them. Nice finished 11th, sold Maupay, and finished 4th the following season. Brest, in France, and Brentford both got promoted within two seasons of binning him off. Brighton sold him this summer and are now 7 points off a CL place with two games in hand. Extraordinary. He's not only shit, he's also a jinx. I can only assume he interviews, like, really well.

We don't need to sign anyone in the summer, just sell Maupay and we're guaranteed top 6.

You're not wrong, and that's one reason why I posted "Don't make a post stating how great Maupay is" or whatever I wrote earlier in this thread.

Maupay is not a striker. Not sure what he is, but he's not a striker. As you pointed out, how often is he in the box to pouch on a cross? How about never? He's a conman really.

Maupay & McNeil are two of the worst signings the club has ever made. end.

Tonteau wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Lol, Coleman has more chance of being offside.

Speaking of Maupay - when you watch him closely, it's extraordinary to think that no previous coach spotted the things he doesn't do that strikers are supposed to do, and tried to turn him into a full back or something. The way he often lays it off and then stands still when he should be on the move. The way he frequently doesn't read/gamble on crosses or passes in the box. The fact that so many of his attempts on goal are powderpuff because he hasn't got himself set first - you never see Kane or Haaland rolling a 15 yarder to the keeper like in a game of bowls. This isn't laziness, I don't think - I reckon he's a trier - but he doesn't have those fundamental instincts that strikers are supposed to have.

I can see the point of McNeil as a PL player, even though he has many deficiencies. I'm actually astounded that Maupay is playing at this level and has on several occasions prompted apparently intelligent people to spend money in order that he plays at the top level for them.

Another thing about Maupay - every team seems to improve after he leaves them. Nice finished 11th, sold Maupay, and finished 4th the following season. Brest, in France, and Brentford both got promoted within two seasons of binning him off. Brighton sold him this summer and are now 7 points off a CL place with two games in hand. Extraordinary. He's not only shit, he's also a jinx. I can only assume he interviews, like, really well.

We don't need to sign anyone in the summer, just sell Maupay and we're guaranteed top 6.

You're not wrong, and that's one reason why I posted "Don't make a post stating how great Maupay is" or whatever I wrote earlier in this thread.

Maupay is not a striker. Not sure what he is, but he's not a striker. As you pointed out, how often is he in the box to pouch on a cross? How about never? He's a conman really.

Maupay & McNeil are two of the worst signings the club has ever made. end.

Worse than Tosun, Rondon, Sandro, Moise Kean, Alcaraz, Kone, Klaasen, Bolassie, Gbamin?

McNeil clearly is a player capable of doing a job for us and is currently doing it pretty well. With Maupay, yep, I'm not convinced but I think most of us had written off Iwobi until a year or so ago, now he's a guaranteed starter evey game. I really don't think I can make a proper call on any player at crisis-club everton. Give him a year under Dyche and I'll make a call on how good/bad a signing he is.

Yankthattoffee wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Lol, Coleman has more chance of being offside.

Speaking of Maupay - when you watch him closely, it's extraordinary to think that no previous coach spotted the things he doesn't do that strikers are supposed to do, and tried to turn him into a full back or something. The way he often lays it off and then stands still when he should be on the move. The way he frequently doesn't read/gamble on crosses or passes in the box. The fact that so many of his attempts on goal are powderpuff because he hasn't got himself set first - you never see Kane or Haaland rolling a 15 yarder to the keeper like in a game of bowls. This isn't laziness, I don't think - I reckon he's a trier - but he doesn't have those fundamental instincts that strikers are supposed to have.

I can see the point of McNeil as a PL player, even though he has many deficiencies. I'm actually astounded that Maupay is playing at this level and has on several occasions prompted apparently intelligent people to spend money in order that he plays at the top level for them.

Another thing about Maupay - every team seems to improve after he leaves them. Nice finished 11th, sold Maupay, and finished 4th the following season. Brest, in France, and Brentford both got promoted within two seasons of binning him off. Brighton sold him this summer and are now 7 points off a CL place with two games in hand. Extraordinary. He's not only shit, he's also a jinx. I can only assume he interviews, like, really well.

We don't need to sign anyone in the summer, just sell Maupay and we're guaranteed top 6.

You're not wrong, and that's one reason why I posted "Don't make a post stating how great Maupay is" or whatever I wrote earlier in this thread.

Maupay is not a striker. Not sure what he is, but he's not a striker. As you pointed out, how often is he in the box to pouch on a cross? How about never? He's a conman really.

Maupay & McNeil are two of the worst signings the club has ever made. end.

Worse than Tosun, Rondon, Sandro, Moise Kean, Alcaraz, Kone, Klaasen, Bolassie, Gbamin?

McNeil clearly is a player capable of doing a job for us and is currently doing it pretty well. With Maupay, yep, I'm not convinced but I think most of us had written off Iwobi until a year or so ago, now he's a guaranteed starter evey game. I really don't think I can make a proper call on any player at crisis-club everton. Give him a year under Dyche and I'll make a call on how good/bad a signing he is.

....and the challenge with MorePay is that a striker is there to strike, first and foremost.

btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roW3mVUX88w
was as good a Motown cover as any at that time. Often forgotten during the Merseybeat era. Get a statue made quick.

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Yankthattoffee wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Lol, Coleman has more chance of being offside.

Speaking of Maupay - when you watch him closely, it's extraordinary to think that no previous coach spotted the things he doesn't do that strikers are supposed to do, and tried to turn him into a full back or something. The way he often lays it off and then stands still when he should be on the move. The way he frequently doesn't read/gamble on crosses or passes in the box. The fact that so many of his attempts on goal are powderpuff because he hasn't got himself set first - you never see Kane or Haaland rolling a 15 yarder to the keeper like in a game of bowls. This isn't laziness, I don't think - I reckon he's a trier - but he doesn't have those fundamental instincts that strikers are supposed to have.

I can see the point of McNeil as a PL player, even though he has many deficiencies. I'm actually astounded that Maupay is playing at this level and has on several occasions prompted apparently intelligent people to spend money in order that he plays at the top level for them.

Another thing about Maupay - every team seems to improve after he leaves them. Nice finished 11th, sold Maupay, and finished 4th the following season. Brest, in France, and Brentford both got promoted within two seasons of binning him off. Brighton sold him this summer and are now 7 points off a CL place with two games in hand. Extraordinary. He's not only shit, he's also a jinx. I can only assume he interviews, like, really well.

We don't need to sign anyone in the summer, just sell Maupay and we're guaranteed top 6.

You're not wrong, and that's one reason why I posted "Don't make a post stating how great Maupay is" or whatever I wrote earlier in this thread.

Maupay is not a striker. Not sure what he is, but he's not a striker. As you pointed out, how often is he in the box to pouch on a cross? How about never? He's a conman really.

Maupay & McNeil are two of the worst signings the club has ever made. end.

Worse than Tosun, Rondon, Sandro, Moise Kean, Alcaraz, Kone, Klaasen, Bolassie, Gbamin?

McNeil clearly is a player capable of doing a job for us and is currently doing it pretty well. With Maupay, yep, I'm not convinced but I think most of us had written off Iwobi until a year or so ago, now he's a guaranteed starter evey game. I really don't think I can make a proper call on any player at crisis-club everton. Give him a year under Dyche and I'll make a call on how good/bad a signing he is.

....and the challenge with MorePay is that a striker is there to strike, first and foremost.

btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roW3mVUX88w
was as good a Motown cover as any at that time. Often forgotten during the Merseybeat era. Get a statue made quick.

not worse than  Tosun, Rondon, Sandro, Moise Kean, Alcaraz, Kone, Klaasen, Bolassie, Gbamin ... but on a par with them IMO.. you forgot Vinegar man & El Ghazi re: recent signings...

..I mean who actually thinks these players are good enough?.... most fans immediately hold their heads in their hands when these are announced (apart from Kean, who I expected better from)

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:Lol, Coleman has more chance of being offside.

Speaking of Maupay - when you watch him closely, it's extraordinary to think that no previous coach spotted the things he doesn't do that strikers are supposed to do, and tried to turn him into a full back or something. The way he often lays it off and then stands still when he should be on the move. The way he frequently doesn't read/gamble on crosses or passes in the box. The fact that so many of his attempts on goal are powderpuff because he hasn't got himself set first - you never see Kane or Haaland rolling a 15 yarder to the keeper like in a game of bowls. This isn't laziness, I don't think - I reckon he's a trier - but he doesn't have those fundamental instincts that strikers are supposed to have.

I can see the point of McNeil as a PL player, even though he has many deficiencies. I'm actually astounded that Maupay is playing at this level and has on several occasions prompted apparently intelligent people to spend money in order that he plays at the top level for them.

Another thing about Maupay - every team seems to improve after he leaves them. Nice finished 11th, sold Maupay, and finished 4th the following season. Brest, in France, and Brentford both got promoted within two seasons of binning him off. Brighton sold him this summer and are now 7 points off a CL place with two games in hand. Extraordinary. He's not only shit, he's also a jinx. I can only assume he interviews, like, really well.

We don't need to sign anyone in the summer, just sell Maupay and we're guaranteed top 6.

You're not wrong, and that's one reason why I posted "Don't make a post stating how great Maupay is" or whatever I wrote earlier in this thread.

Maupay is not a striker. Not sure what he is, but he's not a striker. As you pointed out, how often is he in the box to pouch on a cross? How about never? He's a conman really.

Maupay & McNeil are two of the worst signings the club has ever made. end.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

I disagree on McNeil. I come back to my earlier point - he's Kevin Kilbane. Shouldn't and wouldn't be in an Everton team that is performing at the level our size and potential should expect, but in the current shit-show and with relegation battles now a regular thing again, and with such limited scope for creativity in the side allied to a desperate need for workrate, he provides something. He's had some terrible games for us but I don't think that should cover up the fact that he's been productive in the two home games under Dyche so far.

I also think it's unfair to judge players purely on technical ability. What use to us was Alex Nyarko, for example, who was far more skilled than McNeil but didn't have the stones to deal with a bit of criticism? Or the likes of Barmby, again way better technically than McNeil but who only put a shift in when he fancied it? There's more to football than what you do with the ball when it's at your feet, and there's more to football than what a Youtube highlight reel might show.

So if this comes down to a McNeil v Gray debate then this is where, after some internal debate in my head, I think I now know where I stand. I like Gray, I've said before that we have at times been entirely dependent on him for creativity, especially in the late Rafa days. I think Gray gives a shit, he's not just here for the money. He's a better footballer than McNeil (although no less inconsistent.) I just wonder if he can cope with the pressure of being a starter in the situation we're in. So who do you want, in a relegation battle? The limited but proven player who the manager trusts and who does bring something to the party by way of workrate, crossing and corners, and a remarkable lack of injuries? Or the more mercurial talent who might score a worldie one game in ten but is capable of absolute stinkers and might let you down in other games when you need him?

It's Jim Pearson vs Duncan McKenzie all over again, but with far higher stakes.

It's a tough one. I lean towards McNeil because of the Dyche connection. I have no issue with people saying they'd rather have Gray starting. There is risk either way. This is where we are, these are the players we have, no point in asking why we even bought them, in my opinion. That's a different debate, around transfer policy and strategy, or lack of. This is a conversation about the players we have, for better or worse. For me, McNeil starting and Gray coming off the bench to do some damage with cameos works best for us at this moment in time.

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

I disagree on McNeil. I come back to my earlier point - he's Kevin Kilbane. Shouldn't and wouldn't be in an Everton team that is performing at the level our size and potential should expect, but in the current shit-show and with relegation battles now a regular thing again, and with such limited scope for creativity in the side allied to a desperate need for workrate, he provides something. He's had some terrible games for us but I don't think that should cover up the fact that he's been productive in the two home games under Dyche so far.

I also think it's unfair to judge players purely on technical ability. What use to us was Alex Nyarko, for example, who was far more skilled than McNeil but didn't have the stones to deal with a bit of criticism? Or the likes of Barmby, again way better technically than McNeil but who only put a shift in when he fancied it? There's more to football than what you do with the ball when it's at your feet, and there's more to football than what a Youtube highlight reel might show.

So if this comes down to a McNeil v Gray debate then this is where, after some internal debate in my head, I think I now know where I stand. I like Gray, I've said before that we have at times been entirely dependent on him for creativity, especially in the late Rafa days. I think Gray gives a shit, he's not just here for the money. He's a better footballer than McNeil (although no less inconsistent.) I just wonder if he can cope with the pressure of being a starter in the situation we're in. So who do you want, in a relegation battle? The limited but proven player who the manager trusts and who does bring something to the party by way of workrate, crossing and corners, and a remarkable lack of injuries? Or the more mercurial talent who might score a worldie one game in ten but is capable of absolute stinkers and might let you down in other games when you need him?

It's Jim Pearson vs Duncan McKenzie all over again, but with far higher stakes.

It's a tough one. I lean towards McNeil because of the Dyche connection. I have no issue with people saying they'd rather have Gray starting. There is risk either way. This is where we are, these are the players we have, no point in asking why we even bought them, in my opinion. That's a different debate, around transfer policy and strategy, or lack of. This is a conversation about the players we have, for better or worse. For me, McNeil starting and Gray coming off the bench to do some damage with cameos works best for us at this moment in time.

I think I'm here as well. If you look at that chance Simms put on for doucoure, who's the one everton player you'd want that to fall to? It's Gray every time, no one else comes close. He has a set of skills that no other player in our team has when it comes to running with the ball, dribbling and shooting. We need to find a way to use it, because lord knows we've not got any fit or good strikers.

hairy cataract wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

Tonteau wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

I disagree on McNeil. I come back to my earlier point - he's Kevin Kilbane. Shouldn't and wouldn't be in an Everton team that is performing at the level our size and potential should expect, but in the current shit-show and with relegation battles now a regular thing again, and with such limited scope for creativity in the side allied to a desperate need for workrate, he provides something. He's had some terrible games for us but I don't think that should cover up the fact that he's been productive in the two home games under Dyche so far.

I also think it's unfair to judge players purely on technical ability. What use to us was Alex Nyarko, for example, who was far more skilled than McNeil but didn't have the stones to deal with a bit of criticism? Or the likes of Barmby, again way better technically than McNeil but who only put a shift in when he fancied it? There's more to football than what you do with the ball when it's at your feet, and there's more to football than what a Youtube highlight reel might show.

So if this comes down to a McNeil v Gray debate then this is where, after some internal debate in my head, I think I now know where I stand. I like Gray, I've said before that we have at times been entirely dependent on him for creativity, especially in the late Rafa days. I think Gray gives a shit, he's not just here for the money. He's a better footballer than McNeil (although no less inconsistent.) I just wonder if he can cope with the pressure of being a starter in the situation we're in. So who do you want, in a relegation battle? The limited but proven player who the manager trusts and who does bring something to the party by way of workrate, crossing and corners, and a remarkable lack of injuries? Or the more mercurial talent who might score a worldie one game in ten but is capable of absolute stinkers and might let you down in other games when you need him?

It's Jim Pearson vs Duncan McKenzie all over again, but with far higher stakes.

It's a tough one. I lean towards McNeil because of the Dyche connection. I have no issue with people saying they'd rather have Gray starting. There is risk either way. This is where we are, these are the players we have, no point in asking why we even bought them, in my opinion. That's a different debate, around transfer policy and strategy, or lack of. This is a conversation about the players we have, for better or worse. For me, McNeil starting and Gray coming off the bench to do some damage with cameos works best for us at this moment in time.

I think I'm here as well. If you look at that chance Simms put on for doucoure, who's the one everton player you'd want that to fall to? It's Gray every time, no one else comes close. He has a set of skills that no other player in our team has when it comes to running with the ball, dribbling and shooting. We need to find a way to use it, because lord knows we've not got any fit or good strikers.

Yep. Now, Gray didn't get on during the Leeds and Arsenal games. Because we were doing alright. Maybe if we'd gone another 10 minutes without scoring against Leeds, he'd have come on. Against the Shite, when we needed something, Dyche put him on for half an hour. I think this is the way it will play out all season. Dyche won't gamble too much when we're winning or even drawing. But if we're 1 down with half an hour left, that'll be Gray time.

I think I read somewhere that Gray was about to come on, but then Seamus scored and the plan changed.

I agree with you about McNeil.  Except, I actually think he might even be better than you're giving him credit for.  I remember thinking he was the best player on the pitch when Burnley came to Goodison.  You know how one opposition player often stands out?  Well he was that one.  He ran the game.  Anyway, I think he has that in him, and we've seen glimpses of it against Arse and Leeds.  

If we had a striker, I think we'd be seeing plenty of assists in McNeil's column, the way he was playing on Saturday.  And he's only 23.

hairy cataract wrote:
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I love that.  Poor old Trent looks like the fat kid at school child at school who through a combination of deprivation and personal metabolism issues did not fit the outdated and prejudicial preconceptions of body shape stereotypes when someone nicks his cake*

I could watch that all day.

*obviously this sentence is completely unacceptable. I apologise to anyone triggered by the word "fat" or the word :cake".  Or by the mention of Trent.  Or school.  I think that covers everything.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:
[/url]


I love that.  Poor old Trent looks like the fat kid at school child at school who through a combination of deprivation and personal metabolism issues did not fit the outdated and prejudicial preconceptions of body shape stereotypes when someone nicks his cake*

I could watch that all day.

*obviously this sentence is completely unacceptable. I apologise to anyone triggered by the word "fat" or the word :cake".  Or by the mention of Trent.  Or school.  I think that covers everything.

In the spirit of the age and given the entire works of Roald Dahl have recently been rewritten to avoid causing offence to fatties, women and gender-fluid Oompa-Loompas, I've rewritten your sentence above.

Anyway it's great isn't it? And it's even funnier when you freeze-frame it at just the point where "Trent" (TM) is thinking to himself "huh? where the fuck did he go?"

Et le voici...