Everton v Crystal Palace

Fuck

If we can't win these kind of games, do we really deserve to be in the top flight?

Onana.!!!!

FT, 1-1. Not good enough if we are to try and avoid the drop.

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:If we can't win these kind of games, do we really deserve to be in the top flight?

Without the points deduction we'd have 30 points on the board and be 10 points clear of relegation. But yes, we should be beating an understrength Palace at home. We look low on confidence; hopefully getting a few points 'refunded' will help boost morale.

Armchair wrote:

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:If we can't win these kind of games, do we really deserve to be in the top flight?

Without the points deduction we'd have 30 points on the board and be 10 points clear of relegation. But yes, we should be beating an understrength Palace at home. We look low on confidence; hopefully getting a few points 'refunded' will help boost morale.

Well we need some of them back, on that evidence. Palace were equally shit but I still think that's probably a point more than we deserved.

In a way it's not that surprising, we've known all season that we're more effective away, or at home against better teams, than we are at home against teams that squeeze us for space. And that's because our two best passers of the ball are literally Pickford and Tarkowski.

I think Dyche got it wrong tonight. Don't know whether Harrison had a knock or was being rested given that he runs about 14K per game but we needed to get in behind their wing backs to get crosses in. We were outnumbered everywhere else. We had a bit of an option to do that on the left but the right side was a bit of a sad joke until Harrison came on.

I'm weirdly happy with a point, given that I never saw a goal coming until that moment, outside of some sort of defensive error.

Playing Ashley Young as a winger was one the worst decisions by Sean Dyche.Beto needs a run of games as Calvert Lewin needs pressure taken off him so has to be benched while McNeil has been awful needs dropping,Sean Dyche tactics have been far too negative we are being set up to be far to defensive when we as the home team need to be more aggressive in attack or we won’t win any points,.

Expecting us to be given two points back by the Corrupt Premiership bastards who want us relegated.
Expecting a second charge with more points deduction incoming Everton that.

SEFTON wrote:Playing Ashley Young as a winger was one the worst decisions by Sean Dyche.Beto needs a run of games as Calvert Lewin needs pressure taken off him so has to be benched while McNeil has been awful needs dropping,Sean Dyche tactics have been far too negative we are being set up to be far to defensive when we as the home team need to be more aggressive in attack or we won’t win any points,.

Expecting us to be given two points back by the Corrupt Premiership bastards who want us relegated.
Expecting a second charge with more points deduction incoming Everton that.

I heard guys talking abut 8 points tonight. Where's that coming from?

I can only hope that we have a few injuries which will clear up before our next game.
As soon as I saw Young/Godfrey as the right flank I knew we were in trouble.
Strange team choice. Duke needs to get up to speed, and the rest of the midfield play with the verve of those 3 games.
McNeil has been a best player going. forward, but is he still carrying that ankle he hurt a couple of weeks ago?
Only 13 games left this season.
The heat is on.
COYBs

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:

SEFTON wrote:Playing Ashley Young as a winger was one the worst decisions by Sean Dyche.Beto needs a run of games as Calvert Lewin needs pressure taken off him so has to be benched while McNeil has been awful needs dropping,Sean Dyche tactics have been far too negative we are being set up to be far to defensive when we as the home team need to be more aggressive in attack or we won’t win any points,.

Expecting us to be given two points back by the Corrupt Premiership bastards who want us relegated.
Expecting a second charge with more points deduction incoming Everton that.

I heard guys talking abut 8 points tonight. Where's that coming from?

There is some chat on Twitter that we'll hear tomorrow about our points appeal, and there are suggestions that we'll get 8 points back. Others say 2 points back (i.e. our penalty on appeal is 8 points.)

I've seen nothing on Twitter remotely trustworthy enough to link here, though. Not seen anything on this from any follows that I trust.

Who knows? Exciting isn't it?

not great was it... but we are out of the bottom 3

We look extremely solid at the back, especially against the poorer teams, but obviously have a massive problem at the top end of the pitch. In fact, we could easily have nicked it, not that we deserved to.

Weird thing is that we could easily be a moyes style top 8 side under Dyche if we had a goalscorer and a tad more creativity in the middle. All that money spent and we would have been better off getting in dyche and giving him a budget of about 50 million.

hairy cataract wrote:We look extremely solid at the back, especially against the poorer teams, but obviously have a massive problem at the top end of the pitch. In fact, we could easily have nicked it, not that we deserved to.

Weird thing is that we could easily be a moyes style top 8 side under Dyche if we had a goalscorer and a tad more creativity in the middle. All that money spent and we would have been better off getting in dyche and giving him a budget of about 50 million.

We're a really good team without the ball, but when we get it.....
Dyche hasn't got to that page in the daybook.
We had a distinctive Burnley Dycheball about us, As for the Young/godfrey partnership, I hope not to see it again.

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:We look extremely solid at the back, especially against the poorer teams, but obviously have a massive problem at the top end of the pitch. In fact, we could easily have nicked it, not that we deserved to.

Weird thing is that we could easily be a moyes style top 8 side under Dyche if we had a goalscorer and a tad more creativity in the middle. All that money spent and we would have been better off getting in dyche and giving him a budget of about 50 million.

We're a really good team without the ball, but when we get it.....
Dyche hasn't got to that page in the daybook.
We had a distinctive Burnley Dycheball about us, As for the Young/godfrey partnership, I hope not to see it again.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell. Imagine if we still had Gordon and Richarlison alongside DCL, the way those two have been playing recently?

hairy cataract wrote:

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:We look extremely solid at the back, especially against the poorer teams, but obviously have a massive problem at the top end of the pitch. In fact, we could easily have nicked it, not that we deserved to.

Weird thing is that we could easily be a moyes style top 8 side under Dyche if we had a goalscorer and a tad more creativity in the middle. All that money spent and we would have been better off getting in dyche and giving him a budget of about 50 million.

We're a really good team without the ball, but when we get it.....
Dyche hasn't got to that page in the daybook.
We had a distinctive Burnley Dycheball about us, As for the Young/godfrey partnership, I hope not to see it again.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.  Imagine if we still had Gordon and Richarlison alongside DCL, the way those two have been playing recently?  

To back that up, I was looking at our 2021 squad earlier, when I mentioned in another post that we still had Ancelotti as manager less than three years ago.

It really wasn't that much different in terms of quality at the back or in midfield. We still had some duffers playing regularly - Keane played 35 games in the league, Holgate 28, Davies 25. We did have Yerry and Digne at the back, but we can't complain about our back 4 right now. We had some creativity in midfield from Sigurdsson and Gomes, although it's easy to forget that their presence in that team was a large reason why we were so slow collectively, and partly why Carlo played it safe in a lot of games.

The real difference was up top. We had James, we had Richie, and we had the best version of DCL. Gordon hadn't even broken through yet, he was on loan at Preston.

And we used to worry back then about having Josh King as a backup. How naive we were.

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:We look extremely solid at the back, especially against the poorer teams, but obviously have a massive problem at the top end of the pitch. In fact, we could easily have nicked it, not that we deserved to.

Weird thing is that we could easily be a moyes style top 8 side under Dyche if we had a goalscorer and a tad more creativity in the middle. All that money spent and we would have been better off getting in dyche and giving him a budget of about 50 million.

We're a really good team without the ball, but when we get it.....
Dyche hasn't got to that page in the daybook.
We had a distinctive Burnley Dycheball about us, As for the Young/godfrey partnership, I hope not to see it again.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.  Imagine if we still had Gordon and Richarlison alongside DCL, the way those two have been playing recently?  

To back that up, I was looking at our 2021 squad earlier, when I mentioned in another post that we still had Ancelotti as manager less than three years ago.

It really wasn't that much different in terms of quality at the back or in midfield. We still had some duffers playing regularly - Keane played 35 games in the league, Holgate 28, Davies 25. We did have Yerry and Digne at the back, but we can't complain about our back 4 right now. We had some creativity in midfield from Sigurdsson and Gomes, although it's easy to forget that their presence in that team was a large reason why we were so slow collectively, and partly why Carlo played it safe in a lot of games.

The real difference was up top. We had James, we had Richie, and we had the best version of DCL. Gordon hadn't even broken through yet, he was on loan at Preston.

And we used to worry back then about having Josh King as a backup. How naive we were.

Richie would make a difference. He is quite awkward at times, but he has the Dyche wholehearted approach, top tackler one year, and he drives into the area. That's a problem right now, we need to drive closer to their goal, bring team mates in with you. Right now crosses are coming in with just DCL in the area. Last night a couple of headers were made when he was 15 yards from goal. Long odds, as is the case so many times. Plus there is always a great chance which is fluffed. The Duke last night!
But in general, a lack of guide.

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:We look extremely solid at the back, especially against the poorer teams, but obviously have a massive problem at the top end of the pitch. In fact, we could easily have nicked it, not that we deserved to.

Weird thing is that we could easily be a moyes style top 8 side under Dyche if we had a goalscorer and a tad more creativity in the middle. All that money spent and we would have been better off getting in dyche and giving him a budget of about 50 million.

We're a really good team without the ball, but when we get it.....
Dyche hasn't got to that page in the daybook.
We had a distinctive Burnley Dycheball about us, As for the Young/godfrey partnership, I hope not to see it again.

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.  Imagine if we still had Gordon and Richarlison alongside DCL, the way those two have been playing recently?  

To back that up, I was looking at our 2021 squad earlier, when I mentioned in another post that we still had Ancelotti as manager less than three years ago.

It really wasn't that much different in terms of quality at the back or in midfield. We still had some duffers playing regularly - Keane played 35 games in the league, Holgate 28, Davies 25. We did have Yerry and Digne at the back, but we can't complain about our back 4 right now. We had some creativity in midfield from Sigurdsson and Gomes, although it's easy to forget that their presence in that team was a large reason why we were so slow collectively, and partly why Carlo played it safe in a lot of games.

The real difference was up top. We had James, we had Richie, and we had the best version of DCL. Gordon hadn't even broken through yet, he was on loan at Preston.

And we used to worry back then about having Josh King as a backup. How naive we were.

Richie would make a difference. He is quite awkward at times, but he has the Dyche wholehearted approach, top tackler one year, and he drives into the area. That's a problem right now, we need to drive closer to their goal, bring team mates in with you. Right now crosses are coming in with just DCL in the area. Last night a couple of headers were made when he was 15 yards from goal. Long odds, as is the case so many times. Plus there is always a great chance which is fluffed. The Duke last night!
But in general, a lack of guide.

My main takeaway from last night is that Dyche is back to making sure we don't lose, and if we can nick a win, fine, but just don't lose, like we were when he first came in. How else do we explain Young and Godfrey on the right? Against a back three? OK he may not have suspected they'd play a back three, but he could have brought Harrison on at HT (I said it in this thread). Instead he didn't change, until forced to at 1-0 down.

That bodes ill, for me. It feels very different to when we were on our good run, when it felt like we were having a proper go in every game. Maybe he's gone that way because of injuries, not sure. It was certainly important that we didn't lose last night, not to lose three further points on Palace. Maybe Dyche just recognises that we don't have the weapons to attack a team that's stacking the defence against us. Don't know.

But you're right. DCL's flick-ons are reminiscent of Big Dunc's heyday right now, when we were similarly shit - the flick-ons are landing 30 yards away from his nearest teammate. It becomes a rugby-type territorial exercise, with the only benefit being that the ball ends up 80 yards away from our goal-line.

I really want to believe it's this:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Maybe Dyche just recognises that we don't have the weapons to attack a team that's stacking the defence against us.

Rather than this:

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:
Dyche hasn't got to that page in the daybook.

fourdoors wrote:I really want to believe it's this:

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Maybe Dyche just recognises that we don't have the weapons to attack a team that's stacking the defence against us.

Rather than this:

Yankthattoffee2 wrote:
Dyche hasn't got to that page in the daybook.

That should have read "playbook" which then makes complete sense.