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29 - Rúben Vinagre - whoooooo ??

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hairy cataract
Made 4 Gwladys
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Tue 26 Jul 2022, 10:00 am

I've seen thios a few times... can't find a credible source but....  Suspect


Sporting Left Back, Rúben Vinagre is on his way to Everton on loan with an option to buy



Last edited by Made 4 Gwladys on Wed 28 Dec 2022, 2:32 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Post  hairy cataract Tue 26 Jul 2022, 11:09 am

Sounds a weird one, as we have more pressing requirements than cover for Mykolenko, but Thelwell will know this fella very well from his Wolves days so - if there is any truth in it - he will be driving this deal.

Upside: Won't cost much, he has PL experience, he's young, we need to get some bodies in, option to buy for £8m if he's any good.  Downside: we're only allowed two loans I think? so are we wasting one on a back-up defender when we haven't found a striker or central midfield yet?

Word is that he excels as a wingback rather than as a defender, which would also suggest Frank is sticking with that system.
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Post  Rotterdam 1985 Tue 26 Jul 2022, 11:31 am

hairy cataract wrote:Sounds a weird one, as we have more pressing requirements than cover for Mykolenko, but Thelwell will know this fella very well from his Wolves days so - if there is any truth in it - he will be driving this deal.

Upside: Won't cost much, he has PL experience, he's young, we need to get some bodies in, option to buy for £8m if he's any good.  Downside: we're only allowed two loans I think? so are we wasting one on a back-up defender when we haven't found a striker or central midfield yet?

Word is that he excels as a wingback rather than as a defender, which would also suggest Frank is sticking with that system.

I'm OK with the wing-back system, I think it suits the players we currently have and should help us get the balance right between being more solid defensively and having some threat going forward, via the wing-backs. We're relatively strong in defence and relatively weak in midfield. This system takes some of the pressure off the CM's to be creative, as we'll have that constant outlet on the flanks to get forward and get crosses in. We are nowhere near good enough to play through teams down the middle.

But I think we have to commit to it and stick to it. We're nowhere near good enough to tweak our formation game-by-game, we're not City. Which is a shame because I like the idea of being flexibie depending on the team you're playing and the players you have available. But when we've played three at the back in recent months, too often it has looked to me like the three centre backs in particular didn't know what their roles were. So they tread on each other's toes and fall apart positionally. I think the players need a consistent formation. We can't afford to fanny around too much and be too smart. Benitez started with 4-4-2 and it worked well but it was a disaster when he started fucking about.
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Post  hairy cataract Tue 26 Jul 2022, 11:50 am

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:Sounds a weird one, as we have more pressing requirements than cover for Mykolenko, but Thelwell will know this fella very well from his Wolves days so - if there is any truth in it - he will be driving this deal.

Upside: Won't cost much, he has PL experience, he's young, we need to get some bodies in, option to buy for £8m if he's any good.  Downside: we're only allowed two loans I think? so are we wasting one on a back-up defender when we haven't found a striker or central midfield yet?

Word is that he excels as a wingback rather than as a defender, which would also suggest Frank is sticking with that system.

I'm OK with the wing-back system, I think it suits the players we currently have and should help us get the balance right between being more solid defensively and having some threat going forward, via the wing-backs. We're relatively strong in defence and relatively weak in midfield. This system takes some of the pressure off the CM's to be creative, as we'll have that constant outlet on the flanks to get forward and get crosses in. We are nowhere near good enough to play through teams down the middle.

But I think we have to commit to it and stick to it. We're nowhere near good enough to tweak our formation game-by-game, we're not City. Which is a shame because I like the idea of being flexibie depending on the team you're playing and the players you have available. But when we've played three at the back in recent months, too often it has looked to me like the three centre backs in particular didn't know what their roles were. So they tread on each other's toes and fall apart positionally. I think the players need a consistent formation. We can't afford to fanny around too much and be too smart. Benitez started with 4-4-2 and it worked well but it was a disaster when he started fucking about.

My worry about three at the back is that there is always one weak link (in our case anyway). With a three, I'm assuming it will be Tarkowski, Mina and one other. Two others when Mina gets injured eight minutes into the new season. So that means Keane or Holgate or Godfrey or two of those three, and none of them fill me with confidence.
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Tue 26 Jul 2022, 11:56 am

hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:Sounds a weird one, as we have more pressing requirements than cover for Mykolenko, but Thelwell will know this fella very well from his Wolves days so - if there is any truth in it - he will be driving this deal.

Upside: Won't cost much, he has PL experience, he's young, we need to get some bodies in, option to buy for £8m if he's any good.  Downside: we're only allowed two loans I think? so are we wasting one on a back-up defender when we haven't found a striker or central midfield yet?

Word is that he excels as a wingback rather than as a defender, which would also suggest Frank is sticking with that system.

I'm OK with the wing-back system, I think it suits the players we currently have and should help us get the balance right between being more solid defensively and having some threat going forward, via the wing-backs. We're relatively strong in defence and relatively weak in midfield. This system takes some of the pressure off the CM's to be creative, as we'll have that constant outlet on the flanks to get forward and get crosses in. We are nowhere near good enough to play through teams down the middle.

But I think we have to commit to it and stick to it. We're nowhere near good enough to tweak our formation game-by-game, we're not City. Which is a shame because I like the idea of being flexibie depending on the team you're playing and the players you have available. But when we've played three at the back in recent months, too often it has looked to me like the three centre backs in particular didn't know what their roles were. So they tread on each other's toes and fall apart positionally. I think the players need a consistent formation. We can't afford to fanny around too much and be too smart. Benitez started with 4-4-2 and it worked well but it was a disaster when he started fucking about.

My worry about three at the back is that there is always one weak link (in our case anyway).  With a three, I'm assuming it will be Tarkowski, Mina and one other.  Two others when Mina gets injured eight minutes into the new season.  So that means Keane or Holgate or Godfrey or two of those three,  and none of them fill me with confidence.  
I think it will be Tarky, Godfrey & Keane... Mina is always out so disregard him if he's not sold... Holgate is going to be more of a DM filler I think, who can fill in at CB if required

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Post  Rotterdam 1985 Tue 26 Jul 2022, 12:07 pm

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:Sounds a weird one, as we have more pressing requirements than cover for Mykolenko, but Thelwell will know this fella very well from his Wolves days so - if there is any truth in it - he will be driving this deal.

Upside: Won't cost much, he has PL experience, he's young, we need to get some bodies in, option to buy for £8m if he's any good.  Downside: we're only allowed two loans I think? so are we wasting one on a back-up defender when we haven't found a striker or central midfield yet?

Word is that he excels as a wingback rather than as a defender, which would also suggest Frank is sticking with that system.

I'm OK with the wing-back system, I think it suits the players we currently have and should help us get the balance right between being more solid defensively and having some threat going forward, via the wing-backs. We're relatively strong in defence and relatively weak in midfield. This system takes some of the pressure off the CM's to be creative, as we'll have that constant outlet on the flanks to get forward and get crosses in. We are nowhere near good enough to play through teams down the middle.

But I think we have to commit to it and stick to it. We're nowhere near good enough to tweak our formation game-by-game, we're not City. Which is a shame because I like the idea of being flexibie depending on the team you're playing and the players you have available. But when we've played three at the back in recent months, too often it has looked to me like the three centre backs in particular didn't know what their roles were. So they tread on each other's toes and fall apart positionally. I think the players need a consistent formation. We can't afford to fanny around too much and be too smart. Benitez started with 4-4-2 and it worked well but it was a disaster when he started fucking about.

My worry about three at the back is that there is always one weak link (in our case anyway).  With a three, I'm assuming it will be Tarkowski, Mina and one other.  Two others when Mina gets injured eight minutes into the new season.  So that means Keane or Holgate or Godfrey or two of those three,  and none of them fill me with confidence.  
I think it will be Tarky, Godfrey & Keane... Mina is always out so disregard him if he's not sold... Holgate is going to be more of a DM filler I think, who can fill in at CB if required

So let's take Keane as an example - he's not entirely terrible, but he's exposed in space, and he's a liability in a flat back four. When we're penned back against the better teams then it doesn't really matter if it's a back four or five, and Keane is OK in those situations. In games where we have a reasonable amount of the ball and aren't just parking the bus, he's massively vulnerable to the counter-attack.

So fine, if we could guarantee that Mina will stay fit then him and Tarkowski is a genuinely good CB pairing. The problem is, we're going to have to use Keane and/or Holgate and/or Godfrey at some point. And that's where the trouble begins - I think they're all massively exposed in a flat back four. And by the way, I don't remember the last time I saw Godfrey play well. He's started to remind me of Unsworth, who emerged as a classy-looking, confident young player but was very quickly worn down by playing in bad teams, and ended up being a CB without confidence, prone to panicking.

The three gives us a bit of extra security. But my point is, we can't just switch to a three when we have to, because that just swaps one set of problems for another. Centre backs need consistency and an understanding of each other's roles more than maybe any other position. Just my opinion but I crave stability not just in the boardroom but on the field as well. That's how I'd go anyway, commit to a wing-back formation from the off, play to whatever strengths we have and try to hide our weaknesses. I might be wrong of course. It's been known to happen.
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Post  hairy cataract Tue 26 Jul 2022, 12:08 pm

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Made 4 Gwladys wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:Sounds a weird one, as we have more pressing requirements than cover for Mykolenko, but Thelwell will know this fella very well from his Wolves days so - if there is any truth in it - he will be driving this deal.

Upside: Won't cost much, he has PL experience, he's young, we need to get some bodies in, option to buy for £8m if he's any good.  Downside: we're only allowed two loans I think? so are we wasting one on a back-up defender when we haven't found a striker or central midfield yet?

Word is that he excels as a wingback rather than as a defender, which would also suggest Frank is sticking with that system.

I'm OK with the wing-back system, I think it suits the players we currently have and should help us get the balance right between being more solid defensively and having some threat going forward, via the wing-backs. We're relatively strong in defence and relatively weak in midfield. This system takes some of the pressure off the CM's to be creative, as we'll have that constant outlet on the flanks to get forward and get crosses in. We are nowhere near good enough to play through teams down the middle.

But I think we have to commit to it and stick to it. We're nowhere near good enough to tweak our formation game-by-game, we're not City. Which is a shame because I like the idea of being flexibie depending on the team you're playing and the players you have available. But when we've played three at the back in recent months, too often it has looked to me like the three centre backs in particular didn't know what their roles were. So they tread on each other's toes and fall apart positionally. I think the players need a consistent formation. We can't afford to fanny around too much and be too smart. Benitez started with 4-4-2 and it worked well but it was a disaster when he started fucking about.

My worry about three at the back is that there is always one weak link (in our case anyway).  With a three, I'm assuming it will be Tarkowski, Mina and one other.  Two others when Mina gets injured eight minutes into the new season.  So that means Keane or Holgate or Godfrey or two of those three,  and none of them fill me with confidence.  
I think it will be Tarky, Godfrey & Keane... Mina is always out so disregard him if he's not sold... Holgate is going to be more of a DM filler I think, who can fill in at CB if required

So let's take Keane as an example - he's not entirely terrible, but he's exposed in space, and he's a liability in a flat back four. When we're penned back against the better teams then it doesn't really matter if it's a back four or five, and Keane is OK in those situations. In games where we have a reasonable amount of the ball and aren't just parking the bus, he's massively vulnerable to the counter-attack.

So fine, if we could guarantee that Mina will stay fit then him and Tarkowski is a genuinely good CB pairing. The problem is, we're going to have to use Keane and/or Holgate and/or Godfrey at some point. And that's where the trouble begins - I think they're all massively exposed in a flat back four. And by the way, I don't remember the last time I saw Godfrey play well. He's started to remind me of Unsworth, who emerged as a classy-looking, confident young player but was very quickly worn down by playing in bad teams, and ended up being a CB without confidence, prone to panicking.

The three gives us a bit of extra security. But my point is, we can't just switch to a three when we have to, because that just swaps one set of problems for another. Centre backs need consistency and an understanding of each other's roles more than maybe any other position. Just my opinion but I crave stability not just in the boardroom but on the field as well. That's how I'd go anyway, commit to a wing-back formation from the off, play to whatever strengths we have and try to hide our weaknesses. I might be wrong of course. It's been known to happen.

Fair points, you've got the job.
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Wed 27 Jul 2022, 11:51 am

Rúben Vinagre is on Merseyside for his Everton medical. Everton and Sporting are closing on a loan deal, final details to be resolved on value of buy option clause. Vinagre has already agreed personal terms.

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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire Wed 27 Jul 2022, 1:24 pm

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:Rúben Vinagre is on Merseyside for his Everton medical. Everton and Sporting are closing on a loan deal, final details to be resolved on value of buy option clause. Vinagre has already agreed personal terms.
Name your salary lad and we'll pay it!
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Wed 27 Jul 2022, 4:25 pm

Everton sign ex-Wolves player Vinagre on loan

Everton have completed the loan signing of defender Rúben Vinagre from Sporting Lisbon.

The left-sided player, who spent a few seasons at Wolves, is Frank Lampard's second summer signing after the free transfer of James Tarkowski.

“It’s a dream come true to join a big club like Everton,” Vinagre said. “The opportunity to work with very good players and a very good coach in Frank Lampard made me excited to sign.

“The manager is a football legend. Everybody knows him and the opportunity to work with and learn from him and someone like Ashley Cole – one of football’s best left-backs - is very big for me.”

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2691438/vinagre-signs-for-everton

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Post  Yankthattoffee Wed 27 Jul 2022, 4:30 pm

I mentioned Idrissa Gueye a few weeks back, and lo and behold.
He'll be 33 soon, but he's kept himself in good nick, so a cheap transfer deal and 2 years with us?
I like this idea.
We've failed to cover him, since he left. I thought Allan would do that role, but not quite.
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Wed 27 Jul 2022, 4:35 pm

Yankthattoffee wrote:I mentioned Idrissa Gueye a few weeks back, and lo and behold.
He'll be 33 soon, but he's kept himself in good nick, so a cheap transfer deal and 2 years with us?
I like this idea.
We've failed to cover him, since he left. I thought Allan would do that role, but not quite.
Is Gueye coming back yank ??

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Post  Yankthattoffee Wed 27 Jul 2022, 4:49 pm

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:
Yankthattoffee wrote:I mentioned Idrissa Gueye a few weeks back, and lo and behold.
He'll be 33 soon, but he's kept himself in good nick, so a cheap transfer deal and 2 years with us?
I like this idea.
We've failed to cover him, since he left. I thought Allan would do that role, but not quite.
Is Gueye coming back yank ??
Just this
https://www.goodisonnews.com/2022/07/27/everton-offered-former-midfielder-idrissa-gueye-back-from-paris-saint-germain/
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Wed 27 Jul 2022, 4:50 pm

Yankthattoffee wrote:
Made 4 Gwladys wrote:
Yankthattoffee wrote:I mentioned Idrissa Gueye a few weeks back, and lo and behold.
He'll be 33 soon, but he's kept himself in good nick, so a cheap transfer deal and 2 years with us?
I like this idea.
We've failed to cover him, since he left. I thought Allan would do that role, but not quite.
Is Gueye coming back yank ??
Just this
https://www.goodisonnews.com/2022/07/27/everton-offered-former-midfielder-idrissa-gueye-back-from-paris-saint-germain/
cheers sign him !!!

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Post  hairy cataract Wed 27 Jul 2022, 6:16 pm

Welcome Ruby Vinegar!

On the strength of this signing, I've just placed a bet on us winning the domestic treble at a billion to one. We're going to win the lot and I'm going to be rich!
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Post  Armchair Wed 27 Jul 2022, 6:32 pm

A dream come true for Ruben! The end of Nkonkou perhaps?
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire Wed 27 Jul 2022, 9:41 pm

Is he a leftback? Competing with Mykolenko? If so, not sure I really understand this signing.
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Post  Rotterdam 1985 Wed 27 Jul 2022, 11:17 pm

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Is he a leftback? Competing with Mykolenko? If so, not sure I really understand this signing.

I don't think Nkounkou is good enough defensively. Maybe Frank thinks the same, and just needed someone else at left back. He will be the back-up to Mykolenko. If he turns out to be good enough to actually compete with Mykolenko for a starting place then that's fine, but I'm not sure that will be the case, I think Myko is improving all the time and plays the wing back role pretty well.
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Post  Yankthattoffee Thu 28 Jul 2022, 1:13 pm

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:Is he a leftback? Competing with Mykolenko? If so, not sure I really understand this signing.

I don't think Nkounkou is good enough defensively. Maybe Frank thinks the same, and just needed someone else at left back. He will be the back-up to Mykolenko. If he turns out to be good enough to actually compete with Mykolenko for a starting place then that's fine, but I'm not sure that will be the case, I think Myko is improving all the time and plays the wing back role pretty well.
This, plus McNeil, seems to indicate that FL sees the left side as a weakness. Gomez a gonna anyway.
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Wed 28 Dec 2022, 2:32 pm

Ruben Vinagre's loan deal at Everton could be cut short in January due to a lack of regular football, according to a new report.
The loan is said to include an option to buy Vinagre for €20m in the summer. But the report from Portuguese newspaper A Bola (via, SportWitness ) states that Everton are 'hardly' likely to trigger that clause - and that there is a 'possibility' the 23-year-old will look for a new club next month.

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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire Thu 29 Dec 2022, 12:35 am

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:Ruben Vinagre's loan deal at Everton could be cut short in January due to a lack of regular football, according to a new report.
The loan is said to include an option to buy Vinagre for €20m in the summer. But the report from Portuguese newspaper A Bola (via, SportWitness ) states that Everton are 'hardly' likely to trigger that clause - and that there is a 'possibility' the 23-year-old will look for a new club next month.
€20m?! WTF?!

Uh, we have already spent silly money like that already on Maupay and McNeil. I think we have done enough damage in that regard.
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Post  Made 4 Gwladys Thu 01 Jun 2023, 12:48 pm

gone ... did he play a single game ??

Conor Coady and Rúben Vinagre have completed their loan spells with Everton and will now return to their respective parent clubs following the conclusion of the 2022/23 season.

Coady will rejoin Wolverhampton Wanderers after making 25 appearances and scoring two goals for the Blues, with his final start coming in Sunday’s all-important 1-0 win over Bournemouth.

Vinagre, meanwhile, heads back to his homeland with Sporting Clube de Portugal, having missed the end of the campaign through injury.

Everton Director of Football, Kevin Thelwell, said: “We want to sincerely thank Conor and Rúben for their impeccable professionalism and valuable contributions both on and off the pitch during their time with the Club.

“We wish both players the best in their futures.”

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/3515907/coady-and-vinagre-leave-everton?q=14144114&fbclid=IwAR2XVsh6zRaw1JFJcNLbkYXo5L5te0x9Lthi_uT11r4R990JYJ0r1nn6D-Q

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29 - Rúben Vinagre - whoooooo ?? Empty Re: 29 - Rúben Vinagre - whoooooo ??

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