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West Ham v Everton

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Knight of Thorgothshire
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Rotterdam 1985
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire Sun 09 May 2021, 6:26 pm

That was a hard fought and well organized performance in the end.
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Post  Yankthattoffee Sun 09 May 2021, 6:27 pm

Carlo Catenaccio, Carlo Fantastico...... cheers (at least until Villa)
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire Sun 09 May 2021, 6:34 pm

This result pretty much killed West Ham's chance of getting CL footy next season.
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Post  Rotterdam 1985 Sun 09 May 2021, 6:35 pm

Nice. We are Italy 1977. I confidently expect us to sign Claudio Gentile and Paolo Rossi in the summer, and for the Red Brigades to reform.
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Post  Yankthattoffee Sun 09 May 2021, 9:09 pm

What do you guys make of the deep line we go for, defending free kicks, say 35 years out?
It's worked 100% and yet looks scary.
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Post  Rotterdam 1985 Sun 09 May 2021, 9:51 pm

Yankthattoffee wrote:What do you guys make of the deep line we go for, defending free kicks, say 35 years out?
It's worked 100% and yet looks scary.

I don't like it. But as you say, it seems to work.

It all comes down to whether we win the first header, which we usually do. If we don't, it could be chaos.

You could make similar arguments for and against holding a higher line. It's all academic if Carlo's way of doing it is working.

For all our flaws, we are a really well-drilled unit defensively. Just as well, given the chopping and changing in the back four.
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Post  hairy cataract Sun 09 May 2021, 11:20 pm

I enjoyed the interviews after the game. Carlo basically said we were a shit team but we usually try very hard. DCL said he likes train stations in London because they smell nice.

We might not be the best team in the league, but we're very honest and slightly eccentric.
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Post  Rotterdam 1985 Mon 10 May 2021, 12:05 am

hairy cataract wrote:I enjoyed the interviews after the game.  Carlo basically said we were a shit team but we usually try very hard.  DCL said he likes train stations in London because they smell nice.

We might not be the best team in the league, but we're very honest and slightly eccentric.

If that was on MoTD2 then I saw the Carlo interview, and I agree - he should be a diplomat.

Some random MoTD2 musings...

1. I've only just seen the City claim for a second pen against Chelsea, when Zouma seemed to be trying to sodomize Sterling. Does this fall under "ungentlemanly conduct"? Or was the ref genuinely unable to give a pen because there is no law in the game that expressly forbids a player from trying to stick his cock up an opponent's arse? This is why I think refs should be made to explain their decisions after the game. I like the idea of Anthony Taylor explaining in an over-officious voice that "yes there was clearly contact between penis and rectal area but in my opinion the depth of penetration did not justify awarding a penalty under Law 36(c)(ii)."

2. There was a pundit on duty for our game. I think it was our game anyway. Stephen Warnock. Maybe all of the games, not sure - to be honest their banal witterings drift over me, generally. But how long has MOTD been paying pundits to go and co-commentate on a game that will be compressed into a 3/4 minute highlights package? What's the point? I do try to defend the BBC in general when it's getting stick but when it comes to spending license fee money, they really don't do themselves any favours sometimes.

3. Back to the "should attempted sodomy be a pen?" debate that I've just started and will be doubtless be trending on Twitter by tomorrow - we should use Gomes in a more advanced position for the rest of the season, to try to tempt bi-curious centre backs into some rash shags. He's a good-looking boy, Gomes, and we should play to our strengths. With DCL up there as well, fine specimen that he is, we'll cash in.
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Post  hairy cataract Mon 10 May 2021, 10:16 am

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:I enjoyed the interviews after the game.  Carlo basically said we were a shit team but we usually try very hard.  DCL said he likes train stations in London because they smell nice.

We might not be the best team in the league, but we're very honest and slightly eccentric.

If that was on MoTD2 then I saw the Carlo interview, and I agree - he should be a diplomat.

Some random MoTD2 musings...

1. I've only just seen the City claim for a second pen against Chelsea, when Zouma seemed to be trying to sodomize Sterling. Does this fall under "ungentlemanly conduct"? Or was the ref genuinely unable to give a pen because there is no law in the game that expressly forbids a player from trying to stick his cock up an opponent's arse? This is why I think refs should be made to explain their decisions after the game. I like the idea of Anthony Taylor explaining in an over-officious voice that "yes there was clearly contact between penis and rectal area but in my opinion the depth of penetration did not justify awarding a penalty under Law 36(c)(ii)."

2. There was a pundit on duty for our game. I think it was our game anyway. Stephen Warnock. Maybe all of the games, not sure - to be honest their banal witterings drift over me, generally. But how long has MOTD been paying pundits to go and co-commentate on a game that will be compressed into a 3/4 minute highlights package? What's the point? I do try to defend the BBC in general when it's getting stick but when it comes to spending license fee money, they really don't do themselves any favours sometimes.

3. Back to the "should attempted sodomy be a pen?" debate that I've just started and will be doubtless be trending on Twitter by tomorrow - we should use Gomes in a more advanced position for the rest of the season, to try to tempt bi-curious centre backs into some rash shags. He's a good-looking boy, Gomes, and we should play to our strengths. With DCL up there as well, fine specimen that he is, we'll cash in.

Interesting discussion points on the sodomy/penalty issue, but the laws need to be the same for the mens and womens game, so I'm not sure how that would play out. Unless you handed out strap-ons. But that's another fantasy, err sorry, I mean argument.

The Carlo interview was on Sky or BT or whatever shite channel was showing the match. Our leader said that we weren't a possession team because we didn't have the qualities for that. Our quality was our attitude. So, we're shit, we know we're shit, but we're hard to beat if we work our cocks off. Strange that we've spent billions of quids on players but we're not good enough to keep hold of the ball for more than 20 seconds. Hopefully Marcel Brands will make a note for the next round of player recruitment: "Must be able to play football to a reasonable standard".
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Post  Armchair Mon 10 May 2021, 10:45 am

hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:I enjoyed the interviews after the game.  Carlo basically said we were a shit team but we usually try very hard.  DCL said he likes train stations in London because they smell nice.

We might not be the best team in the league, but we're very honest and slightly eccentric.

If that was on MoTD2 then I saw the Carlo interview, and I agree - he should be a diplomat.

Some random MoTD2 musings...

1. I've only just seen the City claim for a second pen against Chelsea, when Zouma seemed to be trying to sodomize Sterling. Does this fall under "ungentlemanly conduct"? Or was the ref genuinely unable to give a pen because there is no law in the game that expressly forbids a player from trying to stick his cock up an opponent's arse? This is why I think refs should be made to explain their decisions after the game. I like the idea of Anthony Taylor explaining in an over-officious voice that "yes there was clearly contact between penis and rectal area but in my opinion the depth of penetration did not justify awarding a penalty under Law 36(c)(ii)."

2. There was a pundit on duty for our game. I think it was our game anyway. Stephen Warnock. Maybe all of the games, not sure - to be honest their banal witterings drift over me, generally. But how long has MOTD been paying pundits to go and co-commentate on a game that will be compressed into a 3/4 minute highlights package? What's the point? I do try to defend the BBC in general when it's getting stick but when it comes to spending license fee money, they really don't do themselves any favours sometimes.

3. Back to the "should attempted sodomy be a pen?" debate that I've just started and will be doubtless be trending on Twitter by tomorrow - we should use Gomes in a more advanced position for the rest of the season, to try to tempt bi-curious centre backs into some rash shags. He's a good-looking boy, Gomes, and we should play to our strengths. With DCL up there as well, fine specimen that he is, we'll cash in.

Interesting discussion points on the sodomy/penalty issue, but the laws need to be the same for the mens and womens game, so I'm not sure how that would play out.  Unless you handed out strap-ons.  But that's another fantasy, err sorry, I mean argument.

The Carlo interview was on Sky or BT or whatever shite channel was showing the match.  Our leader said that we weren't a possession team because we didn't have the qualities for that.  Our quality was our attitude.  So, we're shit, we know we're shit, but we're hard to beat if we work our cocks off.  Strange that we've spent billions of quids on players but we're not good enough to keep hold of the ball for more than 20 seconds.  Hopefully Marcel Brands will make a note for the next round of player recruitment: "Must be able to play football to a reasonable standard".

I'm wondering if this is a re-run of the Moyes era, where we made ourselves hard to beat first and foremost, but then started to play some decent togger once Moyes had recruited the players to do it (Mirallas, Arteta, Pienaar, Baines etc). We look at Siggy, Richie etc and think that they should be playing decent football all the time but I suppose to Carlo (who is used to managing some world class talent) they are pretty average players. Hopefully after a couple of more transfer windows the defensive reigns will be loosened a bit, although I think Carlo appreciates a solid back line as much as your next stereotypical Italian manager.

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Post  Rotterdam 1985 Mon 10 May 2021, 10:58 am

Armchair wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:I enjoyed the interviews after the game.  Carlo basically said we were a shit team but we usually try very hard.  DCL said he likes train stations in London because they smell nice.

We might not be the best team in the league, but we're very honest and slightly eccentric.

If that was on MoTD2 then I saw the Carlo interview, and I agree - he should be a diplomat.

Some random MoTD2 musings...

1. I've only just seen the City claim for a second pen against Chelsea, when Zouma seemed to be trying to sodomize Sterling. Does this fall under "ungentlemanly conduct"? Or was the ref genuinely unable to give a pen because there is no law in the game that expressly forbids a player from trying to stick his cock up an opponent's arse? This is why I think refs should be made to explain their decisions after the game. I like the idea of Anthony Taylor explaining in an over-officious voice that "yes there was clearly contact between penis and rectal area but in my opinion the depth of penetration did not justify awarding a penalty under Law 36(c)(ii)."

2. There was a pundit on duty for our game. I think it was our game anyway. Stephen Warnock. Maybe all of the games, not sure - to be honest their banal witterings drift over me, generally. But how long has MOTD been paying pundits to go and co-commentate on a game that will be compressed into a 3/4 minute highlights package? What's the point? I do try to defend the BBC in general when it's getting stick but when it comes to spending license fee money, they really don't do themselves any favours sometimes.

3. Back to the "should attempted sodomy be a pen?" debate that I've just started and will be doubtless be trending on Twitter by tomorrow - we should use Gomes in a more advanced position for the rest of the season, to try to tempt bi-curious centre backs into some rash shags. He's a good-looking boy, Gomes, and we should play to our strengths. With DCL up there as well, fine specimen that he is, we'll cash in.

Interesting discussion points on the sodomy/penalty issue, but the laws need to be the same for the mens and womens game, so I'm not sure how that would play out.  Unless you handed out strap-ons.  But that's another fantasy, err sorry, I mean argument.

The Carlo interview was on Sky or BT or whatever shite channel was showing the match.  Our leader said that we weren't a possession team because we didn't have the qualities for that.  Our quality was our attitude.  So, we're shit, we know we're shit, but we're hard to beat if we work our cocks off.  Strange that we've spent billions of quids on players but we're not good enough to keep hold of the ball for more than 20 seconds.  Hopefully Marcel Brands will make a note for the next round of player recruitment: "Must be able to play football to a reasonable standard".

I'm wondering if this is a re-run of the Moyes era, where we made ourselves hard to beat first and foremost, but then started to play some decent togger once Moyes had recruited the players to do it (Mirallas, Arteta, Pienaar, Baines etc). We look at Siggy, Richie etc and think that they should be playing decent football all the time but I suppose to Carlo (who is used to managing some world class talent) they are pretty average players. Hopefully after a couple of more transfer windows the defensive reigns will be loosened a bit, although I think Carlo appreciates a solid back line as much as your next stereotypical Italian manager.


I think this is it, and I sort of contrast Carlo's approach with that of, say, Martinez, who tried to play a brand of football that he just didn't have the players for. His first season was great as we caught some teams out with little tactical things like both full backs pushing on at the same time. By year 2 he was getting sussed out but didn't change, hence Barry giving the ball away in front of his penalty area every 5 minutes trying to play out from the back despite being slower on the turn than an oil tanker. So we became some two-bit Lidl Barcelona. I see Arteta doing the same thing now at Arsenal.

Ancelotti has done the opposite - he's set the team up according to the players he has, rather than trying to implement some set of tactics on players who can't carry them out, to the extent that we don't even try to counter-attack in some games, not necessarily because we don't have the pace to counter-attack effectively, but because I think they're under instructions not to commit too many forward. Keep that solidity at all costs. We are a stereotypical 70s Italian side at the moment.

Hairy's point stands, that we've spunked loads of money on players who seem unable to retain possession, but a lot of those players weren't signed under Carlo's watch. So I agree, it will take a couple of transfer windows but they are really important transfer windows, we have to get them right. Above all else, we need pace. I hope Ancelotti knows what he wants and that Brands has learned some lessons from the past (I like Brands, but his record isn't spotless by any means.)
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Post  hairy cataract Mon 10 May 2021, 12:03 pm

Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Armchair wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:I enjoyed the interviews after the game.  Carlo basically said we were a shit team but we usually try very hard.  DCL said he likes train stations in London because they smell nice.

We might not be the best team in the league, but we're very honest and slightly eccentric.

If that was on MoTD2 then I saw the Carlo interview, and I agree - he should be a diplomat.

Some random MoTD2 musings...

1. I've only just seen the City claim for a second pen against Chelsea, when Zouma seemed to be trying to sodomize Sterling. Does this fall under "ungentlemanly conduct"? Or was the ref genuinely unable to give a pen because there is no law in the game that expressly forbids a player from trying to stick his cock up an opponent's arse? This is why I think refs should be made to explain their decisions after the game. I like the idea of Anthony Taylor explaining in an over-officious voice that "yes there was clearly contact between penis and rectal area but in my opinion the depth of penetration did not justify awarding a penalty under Law 36(c)(ii)."

2. There was a pundit on duty for our game. I think it was our game anyway. Stephen Warnock. Maybe all of the games, not sure - to be honest their banal witterings drift over me, generally. But how long has MOTD been paying pundits to go and co-commentate on a game that will be compressed into a 3/4 minute highlights package? What's the point? I do try to defend the BBC in general when it's getting stick but when it comes to spending license fee money, they really don't do themselves any favours sometimes.

3. Back to the "should attempted sodomy be a pen?" debate that I've just started and will be doubtless be trending on Twitter by tomorrow - we should use Gomes in a more advanced position for the rest of the season, to try to tempt bi-curious centre backs into some rash shags. He's a good-looking boy, Gomes, and we should play to our strengths. With DCL up there as well, fine specimen that he is, we'll cash in.

Interesting discussion points on the sodomy/penalty issue, but the laws need to be the same for the mens and womens game, so I'm not sure how that would play out.  Unless you handed out strap-ons.  But that's another fantasy, err sorry, I mean argument.

The Carlo interview was on Sky or BT or whatever shite channel was showing the match.  Our leader said that we weren't a possession team because we didn't have the qualities for that.  Our quality was our attitude.  So, we're shit, we know we're shit, but we're hard to beat if we work our cocks off.  Strange that we've spent billions of quids on players but we're not good enough to keep hold of the ball for more than 20 seconds.  Hopefully Marcel Brands will make a note for the next round of player recruitment: "Must be able to play football to a reasonable standard".

I'm wondering if this is a re-run of the Moyes era, where we made ourselves hard to beat first and foremost, but then started to play some decent togger once Moyes had recruited the players to do it (Mirallas, Arteta, Pienaar, Baines etc). We look at Siggy, Richie etc and think that they should be playing decent football all the time but I suppose to Carlo (who is used to managing some world class talent) they are pretty average players. Hopefully after a couple of more transfer windows the defensive reigns will be loosened a bit, although I think Carlo appreciates a solid back line as much as your next stereotypical Italian manager.


I think this is it, and I sort of contrast Carlo's approach with that of, say, Martinez, who tried to play a brand of football that he just didn't have the players for. His first season was great as we caught some teams out with little tactical things like both full backs pushing on at the same time. By year 2 he was getting sussed out but didn't change, hence Barry giving the ball away in front of his penalty area every 5 minutes trying to play out from the back despite being slower on the turn than an oil tanker. So we became some two-bit Lidl Barcelona. I see Arteta doing the same thing now at Arsenal.

Ancelotti has done the opposite - he's set the team up according to the players he has, rather than trying to implement some set of tactics on players who can't carry them out, to the extent that we don't even try to counter-attack in some games, not necessarily because we don't have the pace to counter-attack effectively, but because I think they're under instructions not to commit too many forward. Keep that solidity at all costs. We are a stereotypical 70s Italian side at the moment.

Hairy's point stands, that we've spunked loads of money on players who seem unable to retain possession, but a lot of those players weren't signed under Carlo's watch. So I agree, it will take a couple of transfer windows but they are really important transfer windows, we have to get them right. Above all else, we need pace. I hope Ancelotti knows what he wants and that Brands has learned some lessons from the past (I like Brands, but his record isn't spotless by any means.)

Yes, I agree with both of you about the solid platform and the players we have. The Martinez and Arteta points are fair too. It's fucking frustrating though, watching what is, at times, fairly turgid football. This is the big transfer window - if we're still playing Sam style stuff this time next year, the fans will really start to get restless. As proved this morning, when I was astonished because I got tickets for me and my mate for the Wolves game in the ballot, rang my mate in Liverpool to give him the good news, and he was less than enthusiastic. I mean, he was pleased I was coming up, but he really wasn't that arsed about going to the match! I had to talk the fucker into it.

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Post  Da Judge Mon 10 May 2021, 3:29 pm

hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
Armchair wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
Rotterdam 1985 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:I enjoyed the interviews after the game.  Carlo basically said we were a shit team but we usually try very hard.  DCL said he likes train stations in London because they smell nice.

We might not be the best team in the league, but we're very honest and slightly eccentric.

If that was on MoTD2 then I saw the Carlo interview, and I agree - he should be a diplomat.

Some random MoTD2 musings...

1. I've only just seen the City claim for a second pen against Chelsea, when Zouma seemed to be trying to sodomize Sterling. Does this fall under "ungentlemanly conduct"? Or was the ref genuinely unable to give a pen because there is no law in the game that expressly forbids a player from trying to stick his cock up an opponent's arse? This is why I think refs should be made to explain their decisions after the game. I like the idea of Anthony Taylor explaining in an over-officious voice that "yes there was clearly contact between penis and rectal area but in my opinion the depth of penetration did not justify awarding a penalty under Law 36(c)(ii)."

2. There was a pundit on duty for our game. I think it was our game anyway. Stephen Warnock. Maybe all of the games, not sure - to be honest their banal witterings drift over me, generally. But how long has MOTD been paying pundits to go and co-commentate on a game that will be compressed into a 3/4 minute highlights package? What's the point? I do try to defend the BBC in general when it's getting stick but when it comes to spending license fee money, they really don't do themselves any favours sometimes.

3. Back to the "should attempted sodomy be a pen?" debate that I've just started and will be doubtless be trending on Twitter by tomorrow - we should use Gomes in a more advanced position for the rest of the season, to try to tempt bi-curious centre backs into some rash shags. He's a good-looking boy, Gomes, and we should play to our strengths. With DCL up there as well, fine specimen that he is, we'll cash in.

Interesting discussion points on the sodomy/penalty issue, but the laws need to be the same for the mens and womens game, so I'm not sure how that would play out.  Unless you handed out strap-ons.  But that's another fantasy, err sorry, I mean argument.

The Carlo interview was on Sky or BT or whatever shite channel was showing the match.  Our leader said that we weren't a possession team because we didn't have the qualities for that.  Our quality was our attitude.  So, we're shit, we know we're shit, but we're hard to beat if we work our cocks off.  Strange that we've spent billions of quids on players but we're not good enough to keep hold of the ball for more than 20 seconds.  Hopefully Marcel Brands will make a note for the next round of player recruitment: "Must be able to play football to a reasonable standard".

I'm wondering if this is a re-run of the Moyes era, where we made ourselves hard to beat first and foremost, but then started to play some decent togger once Moyes had recruited the players to do it (Mirallas, Arteta, Pienaar, Baines etc). We look at Siggy, Richie etc and think that they should be playing decent football all the time but I suppose to Carlo (who is used to managing some world class talent) they are pretty average players. Hopefully after a couple of more transfer windows the defensive reigns will be loosened a bit, although I think Carlo appreciates a solid back line as much as your next stereotypical Italian manager.


I think this is it, and I sort of contrast Carlo's approach with that of, say, Martinez, who tried to play a brand of football that he just didn't have the players for. His first season was great as we caught some teams out with little tactical things like both full backs pushing on at the same time. By year 2 he was getting sussed out but didn't change, hence Barry giving the ball away in front of his penalty area every 5 minutes trying to play out from the back despite being slower on the turn than an oil tanker. So we became some two-bit Lidl Barcelona. I see Arteta doing the same thing now at Arsenal.

Ancelotti has done the opposite - he's set the team up according to the players he has, rather than trying to implement some set of tactics on players who can't carry them out, to the extent that we don't even try to counter-attack in some games, not necessarily because we don't have the pace to counter-attack effectively, but because I think they're under instructions not to commit too many forward. Keep that solidity at all costs. We are a stereotypical 70s Italian side at the moment.

Hairy's point stands, that we've spunked loads of money on players who seem unable to retain possession, but a lot of those players weren't signed under Carlo's watch. So I agree, it will take a couple of transfer windows but they are really important transfer windows, we have to get them right. Above all else, we need pace. I hope Ancelotti knows what he wants and that Brands has learned some lessons from the past (I like Brands, but his record isn't spotless by any means.)

Yes, I agree with both of you about the solid platform and the players we have.  The Martinez and Arteta points are fair too.  It's fucking frustrating though, watching what is, at times, fairly turgid football.  This is the big transfer window - if we're still playing Sam style stuff this time next year, the fans will really start to get restless.  As proved this morning, when I was astonished because I got tickets for me and my mate for the Wolves game in the ballot, rang my mate in Liverpool to give him the good news, and he was less than enthusiastic.  I mean, he was pleased I was coming up, but he really wasn't that arsed about going to the match!  I had to talk the fucker into it.  


Not surprisingly I take a rather askance view. Going back to the early days of moving to Kirkby, I still think our biggest club priority is to get the new stadium at Bramley Moore. I would happily take decent Cup Runs and solid performances in the League, whilst we consolidated the finances and built the new financial base for the club going forward. I still am very optimistic that some of our greatest days yet to come. I do think Moshiri having built the stadium will begin to transfer ownership into Usmanov. This would be a once in a lifetime opportunity to actually have the financial value of the club set in concrete with the sale of the club and its new ground asset which would certainly remove some of our current FFP constraints with larger gates, improved sponsor revenue opportunities.

With regards to the ECL - I say go for it. I would always fancy our chances of winning it, and in doing so you would get the reward of EL the following year if necessary. Having lived in Eastern Europe its really not that bad.

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