Austria Vienna 2 Everton 1 (Vellios)

Helenqu wrote:

Armchair Evertonian wrote:

Albert wrote:

Helenqu wrote:All over. No real impression of how we are going to be. Roll on Weds night.

Who is it Wednesday Helen?

Accrington. More our level.

Is James Beattie still playing or is he just the manager?

Said he was going to register and play if needed

Albert wrote:

Helenqu wrote:

Armchair Evertonian wrote:

Albert wrote:

Helenqu wrote:All over. No real impression of how we are going to be. Roll on Weds night.

Who is it Wednesday Helen?

Accrington. More our level.

Is James Beattie still playing or is he just the manager?

Said he was going to register and play if needed

Not the marquee signing we hoped for but I suppose he'll do.

Albert wrote:

Helenqu wrote:

Armchair Evertonian wrote:

Albert wrote:

Helenqu wrote:All over. No real impression of how we are going to be. Roll on Weds night.

Who is it Wednesday Helen?

Accrington. More our level.

Is James Beattie still playing or is he just the manager?

Said he was going to register and play if needed

he'll score the winner

Nothing to take from this game really, only a few first teamers played.

mindyerho? wrote:no injuries and a bit of footie.   

This is true. Nice to be wasting my time watching dodgy feeds of shit football matches again. I mean, what else would i want to be doing when the sun is cracking the flags eh?

Got the all important away goal in the bag.. should be ok after the second leg.  

Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do? Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball? Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were? Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

We were pretty shit from what I saw of it, but it's no big deal considering most of them were still picking paella out of their teeth from their holidays. The main worry was probably Jags and Duffy trying to pass the ball out of defence instead of lumping it - they were fucking dreadful, like park footballers. Bright spot was that Joel looked like he may be a decent goalie. To be honest, Wigan would have taken us apart. Baines looked a class act, and Felli looked ready to leave.

I think it may take some time for Bobby to get us playing this new fangled passing game that I hear has been invented recently. Relegation zone by October, hopefully top 10 after Easter.

hairy cataract wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

We were pretty shit from what I saw of it, but it's no big deal considering most of them were still picking paella out of their teeth from their holidays.  The main worry was probably Jags and Duffy trying to pass the ball out of defence instead of lumping it - they were fucking dreadful, like park footballers.   Bright spot was that Joel looked like he may be a decent goalie.  To be honest, Wigan would have taken us apart.  Baines looked a class act, and Felli looked ready to leave.  

I think it may take some time for Bobby to get us playing this new fangled passing game that I hear has been invented recently.  Relegation zone by October, hopefully top 10 after Easter.  

to be honest, that is my expectation also.

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

We were pretty shit from what I saw of it, but it's no big deal considering most of them were still picking paella out of their teeth from their holidays.  The main worry was probably Jags and Duffy trying to pass the ball out of defence instead of lumping it - they were fucking dreadful, like park footballers.   Bright spot was that Joel looked like he may be a decent goalie.  To be honest, Wigan would have taken us apart.  Baines looked a class act, and Felli looked ready to leave.  

I think it may take some time for Bobby to get us playing this new fangled passing game that I hear has been invented recently.  Relegation zone by October, hopefully top 10 after Easter.  

to be honest, that is my expectation also.

To be fair, it would be wildly optimistic to expect anything else. He's going to change the way we play, even if its only a little, and the core of this team has been together a long time and is used to playing a particular style - although Moyes did tend to tailor the style to suit the opposition, so they are used to mixing it up a bit. I can see some terrible goals being given away, and perhaps even some surprising changes in defence before it all settles down. The next few friendlies might give Bobby the chance to see what else he needs to sign before the end of August. And of course, we'll be bedding in more new signings than we're used to - usually we have one new face at the most in the first team.

Could always pass it short..or give it to Hibbo (preferably Baines or Coleman tho).

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

I thought we were shockingly bad Sacko ... the only decent game was by the keeper.... oh and Nais did well... nice header by Vellios but did nowt else

I'll forgive them as it's the first friendly on a baking hot day ... but I still haven't seen anything at all to make me think we're not in a shitload of trouble this season under the relegation regime ..

should be able to make a better judgement after we ship a load against Accrington  

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

I thought we were shockingly bad Sacko ... the only decent game was by the keeper.... oh and Nais did well... nice header by Vellios but did nowt else

I'll forgive them as it's the first friendly on a baking hot day ... but I still haven't seen anything at all to make me think we're not in a shitload of trouble this season under the relegation regime ..

should be able to make a better judgement after we ship a load against Accrington  

I almost hesitate to point this out - but the squad that faced Wien contained no new players apart from the goalie - who, according to you, was the only decent player.  Martinez has been in charge for exactly two weeks.  He hasn't sold one player yet.  The players have been back from hols for about twenty minutes.  Quite how you can deduce from that match that we are in a shitload of trouble is beyond me.  Can you at least wait until all these fucking terrible Wigan players arrive (that would be Kone who scored more than our strikers combined last season, and Alcatraz who missed the entire relegation season through injury and cost zero pence anyway).

Bizarre.

hairy cataract wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

I thought we were shockingly bad Sacko ... the only decent game was by the keeper.... oh and Nais did well... nice header by Vellios but did nowt else

I'll forgive them as it's the first friendly on a baking hot day ... but I still haven't seen anything at all to make me think we're not in a shitload of trouble this season under the relegation regime ..

should be able to make a better judgement after we ship a load against Accrington  

I almost hesitate to point this out - but the squad that faced Wien contained no new players apart from the goalie - who, according to you, was the only decent player.  Martinez has been in charge for exactly two weeks.  He hasn't sold one player yet.  The players have been back from hols for about twenty minutes.  Quite how you can deduce from that match that we are in a shitload of trouble is beyond me.  Can you at least wait until all these fucking terrible Wigan players arrive (that would be Kone who scored more than our strikers combined last season, and Alcatraz who missed the entire relegation season through injury and cost zero pence anyway).

Bizarre.

very rational & totally true .. we could well be top half.. even top 5-6-7 again

However, my view is that I'm not convinced we have appointed the right man in Martinez ... and his back room staff make me nervous knowing that they must have been instrumental in Wigan going down (you cannot blame the players totally).. and signing Wigan players cuts no mustard with me at all.. especially for 8 Million at their ages, which bought us class like Mirallas last year.

It's just my view & I'm entitled to it as far as I'm concerned... but I want to see evidence that proves me wrong... I hope to hell I see evidence that proves me wrong... but my view at this time is we have made a mistake with the managerial appointment & the people he has brought in have worried me further.

As I say ... I hope I'm wrong

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

I thought we were shockingly bad Sacko ... the only decent game was by the keeper.... oh and Nais did well... nice header by Vellios but did nowt else

I'll forgive them as it's the first friendly on a baking hot day ... but I still haven't seen anything at all to make me think we're not in a shitload of trouble this season under the relegation regime ..

should be able to make a better judgement after we ship a load against Accrington  

I almost hesitate to point this out - but the squad that faced Wien contained no new players apart from the goalie - who, according to you, was the only decent player.  Martinez has been in charge for exactly two weeks.  He hasn't sold one player yet.  The players have been back from hols for about twenty minutes.  Quite how you can deduce from that match that we are in a shitload of trouble is beyond me.  Can you at least wait until all these fucking terrible Wigan players arrive (that would be Kone who scored more than our strikers combined last season, and Alcatraz who missed the entire relegation season through injury and cost zero pence anyway).

Bizarre.

very rational & totally true .. we could well be top half.. even top 5-6-7 again

However, my view is that I'm not convinced we have appointed the right man in Martinez ... and his back room staff make me nervous knowing that they must have been instrumental in Wigan going down (you cannot blame the players totally).. and signing Wigan players cuts no mustard with me at all.. especially for 8 Million at their ages, which bought us class like Mirallas last year.

It's just my view & I'm entitled to it as far as I'm concerned... but I want to see evidence that proves me wrong... I hope to hell I see evidence that proves me wrong... but my view at this time is we have made a mistake with the managerial appointment & the people he has brought in have worried me further.

As I say ... I hope I'm wrong

and its all Suarez's fault

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

I thought we were shockingly bad Sacko ... the only decent game was by the keeper.... oh and Nais did well... nice header by Vellios but did nowt else

I'll forgive them as it's the first friendly on a baking hot day ... but I still haven't seen anything at all to make me think we're not in a shitload of trouble this season under the relegation regime ..

should be able to make a better judgement after we ship a load against Accrington  

I almost hesitate to point this out - but the squad that faced Wien contained no new players apart from the goalie - who, according to you, was the only decent player.  Martinez has been in charge for exactly two weeks.  He hasn't sold one player yet.  The players have been back from hols for about twenty minutes.  Quite how you can deduce from that match that we are in a shitload of trouble is beyond me.  Can you at least wait until all these fucking terrible Wigan players arrive (that would be Kone who scored more than our strikers combined last season, and Alcatraz who missed the entire relegation season through injury and cost zero pence anyway).

Bizarre.

very rational & totally true .. we could well be top half.. even top 5-6-7 again

However, my view is that I'm not convinced we have appointed the right man in Martinez ... and his back room staff make me nervous knowing that they must have been instrumental in Wigan going down (you cannot blame the players totally).. and signing Wigan players cuts no mustard with me at all.. especially for 8 Million at their ages, which bought us class like Mirallas last year.

It's just my view & I'm entitled to it as far as I'm concerned... but I want to see evidence that proves me wrong... I hope to hell I see evidence that proves me wrong... but my view at this time is we have made a mistake with the managerial appointment & the people he has brought in have worried me further.

As I say ... I hope I'm wrong

You may well be totally right, but the only former Wigan players on display yesterday were Baines and Joel - both of whom were great. The only player we've given Wigan money for so far is Kone. Joel was on loan to them and Alcatraz came on a free. Kone is a proven PL goalscorer and cost a quarter of a Downing. Or a seventh of a Carroll. Or half a Bily. All I'm saying is let's wait and see.

hairy cataract wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

hairy cataract wrote:

Made 4 Gwladys wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:Ok for those who watched it, how did we really do?  Did we really give two goals away because our defenders can't pass the ball?  Or were we brilliant as Boberto thinks we were?  Weren't Wigan brilliant when they went down last season?

I thought we were shockingly bad Sacko ... the only decent game was by the keeper.... oh and Nais did well... nice header by Vellios but did nowt else

I'll forgive them as it's the first friendly on a baking hot day ... but I still haven't seen anything at all to make me think we're not in a shitload of trouble this season under the relegation regime ..

should be able to make a better judgement after we ship a load against Accrington  

I almost hesitate to point this out - but the squad that faced Wien contained no new players apart from the goalie - who, according to you, was the only decent player.  Martinez has been in charge for exactly two weeks.  He hasn't sold one player yet.  The players have been back from hols for about twenty minutes.  Quite how you can deduce from that match that we are in a shitload of trouble is beyond me.  Can you at least wait until all these fucking terrible Wigan players arrive (that would be Kone who scored more than our strikers combined last season, and Alcatraz who missed the entire relegation season through injury and cost zero pence anyway).

Bizarre.

very rational & totally true .. we could well be top half.. even top 5-6-7 again

However, my view is that I'm not convinced we have appointed the right man in Martinez ... and his back room staff make me nervous knowing that they must have been instrumental in Wigan going down (you cannot blame the players totally).. and signing Wigan players cuts no mustard with me at all.. especially for 8 Million at their ages, which bought us class like Mirallas last year.

It's just my view & I'm entitled to it as far as I'm concerned... but I want to see evidence that proves me wrong... I hope to hell I see evidence that proves me wrong... but my view at this time is we have made a mistake with the managerial appointment & the people he has brought in have worried me further.

As I say ... I hope I'm wrong

You may well be totally right, but the only former Wigan players on display yesterday were Baines and Joel - both of whom were great.    The only player we've given Wigan money for so far is Kone.  Joel was on loan to them and Alcatraz came on a free.  Kone is a proven PL goalscorer and cost a quarter of a Downing.  Or a seventh of a Carroll.  Or half a Bily.  All I'm saying is let's wait and see.

There is hardly several more Mirellas' out there just waiting to be plucked by Everton! Players like him are the exception, something Moyes was able to do after extensive scouting and planning. The market is inflating again with the big teams in Europe (and Norwich) spending heavily so hard to see where all the £6m gems will come from. And don't forget, for every gem there is a £9m Bily too!
Unfortunately, you have already set your bias out as default negative against Martinez. Every setback will be vindication. Every success a surprise. It's quite an easy position to take up actually. Managers learn from their mistakes, certainly a manager who has got relegated. I can't think of any manager who has made a step up and got relegated again. Repeat offenders usually just move sideways or down. Maybe it was part of learning his craft under tight constraints building a philosophy. But certainly this relegation tag is over egged.
Like Hairy, I'm in the wait and see category. Nothing alarming or over exciting at the moment. Just some decisive early squad building and an opportunity to see what to assess his full squad.

So in conclusion...sack Martinez.

Bluejags There is hardly several more Mirellas' out there just waiting to be plucked by Everton! Players like him are the exception, something Moyes was able to do after extensive scouting and planning. The market is inflating again with the big teams in Europe (and Norwich) spending heavily so hard to see where all the £6m gems will come from. And don't forget, for every gem there is a £9m Bily too! wrote:Unfortunately, you have already set your bias out as default negative against Martinez. Every setback will be vindication. Every success a surprise. It's quite an easy position to take up actually. Managers learn from their mistakes, certainly a manager who has got relegated. I can't think of any manager who has made a step up and got relegated again. Repeat offenders usually just move sideways or down. Maybe it was part of learning his craft under tight constraints building a philosophy. But certainly this relegation tag is over egged.
Like Hairy, I'm in the wait and see category. Nothing alarming or over exciting at the moment. Just some decisive early squad building and an opportunity to see what to assess his full squad.

I think more than a few of us remain to be convinced about bobbyo and his back room staff.  Don't get me wrong, I wa happyish with his appointment, but didnt expect a wholesale migration of Wigan!

I understand a successful manager wants to keep his back room staff together, but they as a unit, relegated wigan last season.  With the same players a Sam Allardyce would have kept them up.  And it wasn't as if he had inherited a poor team, it was HIS team.

Yes he had to sell players to balance the books but all managers have to do that.

This is the worrying thing, but then he compounds this by trying to buy half the players who took the club down with him.  Even after he tried to calm things down by saying there are more options to him now than raiding his old club.

Yes it's early days, and yes he could turn out to be a wonderful manager with better players, but if we don't gel or work to his formula, then our best players will lose faith in him (if they have any) and will ask to leave, and recruiting from Wigan will not get us into the CL.

So on the whole I'm not impressed with the direction we've taken since recruiting bobbyo.  We've improved the team a lot under moyes, I don't want to see it diluted.

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:

Bluejags There is hardly several more Mirellas' out there just waiting to be plucked by Everton! Players like him are the exception, something Moyes was able to do after extensive scouting and planning. The market is inflating again with the big teams in Europe (and Norwich) spending heavily so hard to see where all the £6m gems will come from. And don't forget, for every gem there is a £9m Bily too! wrote:Unfortunately, you have already set your bias out as default negative against Martinez. Every setback will be vindication. Every success a surprise. It's quite an easy position to take up actually. Managers learn from their mistakes, certainly a manager who has got relegated. I can't think of any manager who has made a step up and got relegated again. Repeat offenders usually just move sideways or down. Maybe it was part of learning his craft under tight constraints building a philosophy. But certainly this relegation tag is over egged.
Like Hairy, I'm in the wait and see category. Nothing alarming or over exciting at the moment. Just some decisive early squad building and an opportunity to see what to assess his full squad.

I think more than a few of us remain to be convinced about bobbyo and his back room staff.  Don't get me wrong, I wa happyish with his appointment, but didnt expect a wholesale migration of Wigan!

I understand a successful manager wants to keep his back room staff together, but they as a unit, relegated wigan last season.  With the same players a Sam Allardyce would have kept them up.  And it wasn't as if he had inherited a poor team, it was HIS team.

Yes he had to sell players to balance the books but all managers have to do that.

This is the worrying thing, but then he compounds this by trying to buy half the players who took the club down with him.  Even after he tried to calm things down by saying there are more options to him now than raiding his old club.

Yes it's early days, and yes he could turn out to be a wonderful manager with better players, but if we don't gel or work to his formula, then our best players will lose faith in him (if they have any) and will ask to leave, and recruiting from Wigan will not get us into the CL.

So on the whole I'm not impressed with the direction we've taken since recruiting bobbyo.  We've improved the team a lot under moyes, I don't want to see it diluted.

I hear what you're saying, but every manager seems to take his entire backroom staff with him. Imagine how they feel at Old Trafford - the entire management staff that has won them every trophy in sight is swept away to be replaced by Steve Round who has never won a trophy in his life! Fuck me, now that's worrying, not us replacing Steve Round with whoever the fuck it is Bobby's brought in from Wigan!

As for the recruitment - he's bought one player from Wigan, taken one on a free, and bought a young goalie who was on loan at Wigan. That's it. Fine, if he goes back and picks up another three Wigan players, you may have a point. But one paid-for signing and one free squadie is hardly a big deal.

As has been pointed out a million times before, our captain came from a relegated side. He's done okay for us I think. As did Joe Royle who came from a relegated side.

IMO, we haven't actually taken a "direction" yet under Martinez, he's only been here two weeks.

hairy cataract wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:

Bluejags There is hardly several more Mirellas' out there just waiting to be plucked by Everton! Players like him are the exception, something Moyes was able to do after extensive scouting and planning. The market is inflating again with the big teams in Europe (and Norwich) spending heavily so hard to see where all the £6m gems will come from. And don't forget, for every gem there is a £9m Bily too! wrote:Unfortunately, you have already set your bias out as default negative against Martinez. Every setback will be vindication. Every success a surprise. It's quite an easy position to take up actually. Managers learn from their mistakes, certainly a manager who has got relegated. I can't think of any manager who has made a step up and got relegated again. Repeat offenders usually just move sideways or down. Maybe it was part of learning his craft under tight constraints building a philosophy. But certainly this relegation tag is over egged.
Like Hairy, I'm in the wait and see category. Nothing alarming or over exciting at the moment. Just some decisive early squad building and an opportunity to see what to assess his full squad.

I think more than a few of us remain to be convinced about bobbyo and his back room staff.  Don't get me wrong, I wa happyish with his appointment, but didnt expect a wholesale migration of Wigan!

I understand a successful manager wants to keep his back room staff together, but they as a unit, relegated wigan last season.  With the same players a Sam Allardyce would have kept them up.  And it wasn't as if he had inherited a poor team, it was HIS team.

Yes he had to sell players to balance the books but all managers have to do that.

This is the worrying thing, but then he compounds this by trying to buy half the players who took the club down with him.  Even after he tried to calm things down by saying there are more options to him now than raiding his old club.

Yes it's early days, and yes he could turn out to be a wonderful manager with better players, but if we don't gel or work to his formula, then our best players will lose faith in him (if they have any) and will ask to leave, and recruiting from Wigan will not get us into the CL.

So on the whole I'm not impressed with the direction we've taken since recruiting bobbyo.  We've improved the team a lot under moyes, I don't want to see it diluted.

I hear what you're saying, but every manager seems to take his entire backroom staff with him.  Imagine how they feel at Old Trafford - the entire management staff that has won them every trophy in sight is swept away to be replaced by Steve Round who has never won a trophy in his life!  Fuck me, now that's worrying, not us replacing Steve Round with whoever the fuck it is Bobby's brought in from Wigan!

As for the recruitment - he's bought one player from Wigan, taken one on a free, and bought a young goalie who was on loan at Wigan.  That's it.  Fine, if he goes back and picks up another three Wigan players, you may have a point.  But one paid-for signing and one free squadie is hardly a big deal.

As has been pointed out a million times before, our captain came from a relegated side.  He's done okay for us I think.  As did Joe Royle who came from a relegated side.

IMO, we haven't actually taken a "direction" yet under Martinez, he's only been here two weeks.

Everyone Is having their opinion ,so, I 'm going have mine

Like most I excepted why? we appointed Martinez didn't want him still don't if I am honest,but , Excepted it never the less, I just don't understand why we have had to go back to Wigan for players like Kone & Acaraz jobels when theirs better options around? Moses at Chelsea 8m would have been a better option in my opinion he's young and fast, We haven't even replaced Neville . Martinez has contradicted himself with his comments assuring the fans that he and Kenwright would only bring in certain types of players that will fit the Everton mould ? err don't you mean Wigan? Before any talk about David Moyes going to United, Moyes was planning for the future as a few Everton players were the other side of thirty, players like Osman-Neville-Distin-Howard all thirty plus years of age . What does Martinez do? Brings in Acaraz and Kone both too old in my opinion ''both'' not going to light up the premiership. We get a new keeper probably not ready yet to push Howard and then this little Spanninsh wiz kid 19 on loan for a season What good is that to Everton in the long term ? If and its a bloody big If we qualified for Europe ? this kid won't be playing for us next season either, so, it don't look to good when you see the likes of Wanayama going to Southampton and Leroy Fer going to Norwich for half the money moyes was going to pay. Fellaini will go to United or Arsenal and we will go and pay half the Fellaini money for McCarthy at Wigan, Fucking stupid business if it happens? Wigan will replace Everton in the premiership and Dave Whelan will poach Martinez back to the JJB Thanks Kenwright Thanks for fuck all you have put us back 11 years and maybe more . The only winner is Dave Whelan rich from Everton's money and pissing himself with laughter. I thought we had seen the back of relegation battles but when Martinez was named as Everton boss I have had a bad feeling in my gut since, sorry I know it sounds negative but I have been supporting Everton over forty years and I will always support the club -team -manager who ever but I don't see Martinez being able to take us forward, I hope to god I am proven wrong .

hairy cataract wrote:

Saccum Praestigiatorum wrote:

Bluejags There is hardly several more Mirellas' out there just waiting to be plucked by Everton! Players like him are the exception, something Moyes was able to do after extensive scouting and planning. The market is inflating again with the big teams in Europe (and Norwich) spending heavily so hard to see where all the £6m gems will come from. And don't forget, for every gem there is a £9m Bily too! wrote:Unfortunately, you have already set your bias out as default negative against Martinez. Every setback will be vindication. Every success a surprise. It's quite an easy position to take up actually. Managers learn from their mistakes, certainly a manager who has got relegated. I can't think of any manager who has made a step up and got relegated again. Repeat offenders usually just move sideways or down. Maybe it was part of learning his craft under tight constraints building a philosophy. But certainly this relegation tag is over egged.
Like Hairy, I'm in the wait and see category. Nothing alarming or over exciting at the moment. Just some decisive early squad building and an opportunity to see what to assess his full squad.

I think more than a few of us remain to be convinced about bobbyo and his back room staff.  Don't get me wrong, I wa happyish with his appointment, but didnt expect a wholesale migration of Wigan!

I understand a successful manager wants to keep his back room staff together, but they as a unit, relegated wigan last season.  With the same players a Sam Allardyce would have kept them up.  And it wasn't as if he had inherited a poor team, it was HIS team.

Yes he had to sell players to balance the books but all managers have to do that.

This is the worrying thing, but then he compounds this by trying to buy half the players who took the club down with him.  Even after he tried to calm things down by saying there are more options to him now than raiding his old club.

Yes it's early days, and yes he could turn out to be a wonderful manager with better players, but if we don't gel or work to his formula, then our best players will lose faith in him (if they have any) and will ask to leave, and recruiting from Wigan will not get us into the CL.

So on the whole I'm not impressed with the direction we've taken since recruiting bobbyo.  We've improved the team a lot under moyes, I don't want to see it diluted.

I hear what you're saying, but every manager seems to take his entire backroom staff with him.  Imagine how they feel at Old Trafford - the entire management staff that has won them every trophy in sight is swept away to be replaced by Steve Round who has never won a trophy in his life!  Fuck me, now that's worrying, not us replacing Steve Round with whoever the fuck it is Bobby's brought in from Wigan!

As for the recruitment - he's bought one player from Wigan, taken one on a free, and bought a young goalie who was on loan at Wigan.  That's it.  Fine, if he goes back and picks up another three Wigan players, you may have a point.  But one paid-for signing and one free squadie is hardly a big deal.

As has been pointed out a million times before, our captain came from a relegated side.  He's done okay for us I think.  As did Joe Royle who came from a relegated side.

IMO, we haven't actually taken a "direction" yet under Martinez, he's only been here two weeks.

Agreed, their hasn't been wholesale migration (yet) nor have we signed half their team(yet!), as hairy outlined. Its a nice soundbite for an argument at the moment though. I think its the norm that most managers bring their own staff with them so thats generally a given. The pattern of the recruitment will only be truly known come close of the transfer window. As we keep saying, wait and see.

I am not going to read too much into this, as Vienna are 6 weeks ahead of us in preparing for their coming season. Our players are still on the beach!  

its Mike Walker all over again!  

I consider myself spanked  

I promise to try & be more positive in future