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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss

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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Empty Re: DAVID MOYES - ex Boss

Post  Statman on Tue 24 Aug 2010, 10:49 pm

BB wrote:
SEFTON wrote:
BB wrote:I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves doubting Moyes. lol! DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 F_whistl


i think nine years in any job should give you an idea about your staff,osman-hibbert-yobo-distin-neville-yak-saha, all not good enough for regular starts in the team,if we are to move on and challenge for champions league football moyes has to replace the above list before there contracts wittle down and we can't get a penny for them.


just my opinion.


Ask ourselves this: If we put Aaron Lennon on the right, would he be crossing the ball to an empty box if we attacked on the break, as our other players simply couldn't keep up, as we have no pace in the side?

I talk crap, so ignore me lol. cheers

I suspect that he would fall over his own feet or run the ball out of play like he normally does.
Statman
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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Empty Re: DAVID MOYES - ex Boss

Post  BB on Tue 24 Aug 2010, 11:47 pm

Statman wrote:
BB wrote:
SEFTON wrote:
BB wrote:I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves doubting Moyes. lol! DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 F_whistl


i think nine years in any job should give you an idea about your staff,osman-hibbert-yobo-distin-neville-yak-saha, all not good enough for regular starts in the team,if we are to move on and challenge for champions league football moyes has to replace the above list before there contracts wittle down and we can't get a penny for them.


just my opinion.


Ask ourselves this: If we put Aaron Lennon on the right, would he be crossing the ball to an empty box if we attacked on the break, as our other players simply couldn't keep up, as we have no pace in the side?

I talk crap, so ignore me lol. cheers

I suspect that he would fall over his own feet or run the ball out of play like he normally does.

I noticed you edited my post, but left the last line in. Suspect DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 252932
BB
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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Empty Re: DAVID MOYES - ex Boss

Post  Statman on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 12:21 am

BB wrote:
Statman wrote:
BB wrote:
SEFTON wrote:
BB wrote:I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves doubting Moyes. lol! DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 F_whistl


i think nine years in any job should give you an idea about your staff,osman-hibbert-yobo-distin-neville-yak-saha, all not good enough for regular starts in the team,if we are to move on and challenge for champions league football moyes has to replace the above list before there contracts wittle down and we can't get a penny for them.


just my opinion.


Ask ourselves this: If we put Aaron Lennon on the right, would he be crossing the ball to an empty box if we attacked on the break, as our other players simply couldn't keep up, as we have no pace in the side?

I talk crap, so ignore me lol. cheers

I suspect that he would fall over his own feet or run the ball out of play like he normally does.

I noticed you edited my post, but left the last line in. Suspect DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 252932

lol! That was only to keep the [/quote] correctly in place.
Statman
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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Empty Re: DAVID MOYES - ex Boss

Post  BB on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 3:21 am

Statman wrote:
BB wrote:
Statman wrote:
BB wrote:
SEFTON wrote:
BB wrote:I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves doubting Moyes. lol! DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 F_whistl


i think nine years in any job should give you an idea about your staff,osman-hibbert-yobo-distin-neville-yak-saha, all not good enough for regular starts in the team,if we are to move on and challenge for champions league football moyes has to replace the above list before there contracts wittle down and we can't get a penny for them.


just my opinion.


Ask ourselves this: If we put Aaron Lennon on the right, would he be crossing the ball to an empty box if we attacked on the break, as our other players simply couldn't keep up, as we have no pace in the side?

I talk crap, so ignore me lol. cheers

I suspect that he would fall over his own feet or run the ball out of play like he normally does.

I noticed you edited my post, but left the last line in. Suspect DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 252932

lol! That was only to keep the [/qute] correctly in place.

This is my happy face. DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 F_laugh
DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Angry-puppy
BB
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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Empty Re: DAVID MOYES - ex Boss

Post  Statman on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 8:47 pm

BB wrote:
Statman wrote:
BB wrote:
Statman wrote:
BB wrote:
SEFTON wrote:
BB wrote:I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves doubting Moyes. lol! DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 F_whistl


i think nine years in any job should give you an idea about your staff,osman-hibbert-yobo-distin-neville-yak-saha, all not good enough for regular starts in the team,if we are to move on and challenge for champions league football moyes has to replace the above list before there contracts wittle down and we can't get a penny for them.


just my opinion.


Ask ourselves this: If we put Aaron Lennon on the right, would he be crossing the ball to an empty box if we attacked on the break, as our other players simply couldn't keep up, as we have no pace in the side?

I talk crap, so ignore me lol. cheers

I suspect that he would fall over his own feet or run the ball out of play like he normally does.

I noticed you edited my post, but left the last line in. Suspect DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 252932

lol! That was only to keep the [/qute] correctly in place.

This is my happy face. DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 F_laugh
DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Angry-puppy

And I thought that you were a pussy cat! Smile
Statman
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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Empty Re: DAVID MOYES - ex Boss

Post  fourdoors on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 10:40 pm

Hi BB,

When you joined this board, I think you said something about being unpopular on other boards due to your contrary opinions.
Then you posted something recently about how you're glad Everton haven't gone the way of Citteh or Chelski, and were praised to the heavens. Smile
Nice to see you posting something a little more controversial - but if it's well written and coherently argued, I think most viewpoints are welcome here (except SuitsBlue).

One of the things I like about Moyes is his humility. He doesn't have arrogance of Wenger or Ferguson. Yes, sometimes I'd love to hear him say what he really thinks about a referee, but what's that going to achieve? A fine, maybe a touchline ban, and he'll weaken his (and Everton's) position in future disputes. Of course there's a fine balance needed: appeasement didn't help Chamberlain much. But ranting to a Sky reporter isn't going to help either.

It's in his nature to be cautious: defenders often are. I can't imagine Abramovich tolerating Moyes as a manager. Wink His reluctance to gamble on an attacking option can frequently be frustrating. On the other hand, that carefulness has benefits: his most expensive flop I think has been Kroldrup (interestingly, a defender): at £5m, that didn't hurt us much. Compare that with some of the other expensive flops at bigger clubs: Veron and Forlan, Shevchenko, and pretty much anybody Rafa signed apart from Torres. Of course, those clubs can afford money to throw around, and sometimes it would be nice to see Moyes being a bit more adventurous (Moutinho anybody?), but Everton can't afford to gamble in the transfer market to that extent. At least, not more than once every few years. So although I agree with your sentiments, I disagree with this comment:

We don't need a manager now, who can bring in players on the cheap and perform miracles with them.
Sadly, we still do. What was our transfer budget this summer? What will it be in the January window? Who would YOU buy for that much money? Wink

Along with his humility comes the self-recognition that Moyes is not the finished article. How often did we hear Rafa admitting to his own faults and promising to try to improve? Or any other manager for that matter? Moyes at least is trying to learn. I fully agree that he needs to evolve, but evolution typically occurs slowly, unless survival is at stake. When Moyes joined and needed to keep Everton up with a squad of pretty poor players, he had to learn fast. As you've said, his position now is far too comfortable. The pressure is off. Moyes is not going to change radically overnight.

So, if Moyes is still learning (evolving), albeit at a slow pace, does that placate you or would you prefer to replace him with somebody more dynamic?

And if you want to replace him..... then who would you suggest? (I'm assuming you weren't serious about Sven drunken ) Every season we hit a bad patch (usually in August!) and people get frustrated by Moyes, and there are calls to sack Moyles (it's an old joke... possibly in the "606 Gold" thread somewhere. "Sack Moyles, bring back Ball" was my favourite.) And the response is always: okay, but who with?
Despite his faults, Moyes has done a good job. As has been said, better than anybody since the glory days. I agree, maybe somebody else could have done better. But maybe not. If we replace him, then it needs to be with somebody better (otherwise, what's the point? Apart from more attacking football or exciting transfers, perhaps), but the new manager will be in the same financial constraints as Moyes.

Personally, I'd keep Moyes, but I would like Bill to kick him up the arse every now and then. And the comment about hiring some more attack-minded coaches is a good one.

P.S. My participation on this board is sporadic and often under the influence of alcohol. If you reply to what I've written, I hope you won't take any lack of response on my part to indicate rudeness or agreement! Very Happy

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Post  fourdoors on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 10:44 pm

Garry Adams wrote:Our main issue that I've seen in the last 18 months or so is our inability to turn possession into real chances. Whether it's a lack of movement, poor final ball or whatever, we always seem to be lacking that cutting edge. With players of the calibre of Arteta and Pienaar we are very assured on the ball but something isn't working.

I rarely get to see Everton play, so I'm curious to know what you think:
Is the problem the final ball? Or is it that we don't have anybody who can finish the half-chances? Saha had a purple patch last season, but apart from that, it's been 18 months (or more) since Yak was fit....

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Post  fourdoors on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 10:46 pm

Still laughing at this:

BB wrote:

He said: “I hope we never made excuses last year. We’ve got a really good squad to pick from and at the moment we’re just slightly under-performing from what we want.
YOU are under-performing chucky egg. Take a risk now and then.

lol!

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Post  fourdoors on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 10:50 pm

treblA wrote:1 up front seems to work for Barcelona and Chelsea BB

That's true. On the other hand:
- Compare our one up front with theirs
- Consider how many chances teams like that create for their poor lonely striker. Put Heskey up front for Barcelona, and even he will score a couple. Put him up front for us and we'll draw 1-1 with Wolves (with a midfielder scoring our goal).

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DAVID MOYES - ex Boss - Page 8 Empty Well done David Moyes.

Post  BB on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 11:37 pm

Tonight, I am in a very positive frame of mind as an Everton fan.

It's not the win, as that always gets a welcome, but tonight David Moyes delivered what I've been waiting for him to deliver, and that was a sign that he has the bottle to use 'the squad'.

He will have learned a lot from tonight, and so will the fans have done too. OK, we were playing Huddersfield, but we've gone out many times to similar opposition, and tonight was no guarantee anything would be different, but it was our night, and all went well.

The fact that players such as Mucha, Gueye, Coleman, Beckford, and Rodwell all started was exciting I felt. It didn't feel like it was kids like the Bate match, but that it was our new breed of stars taking responsibility. Add to that, Fellaini, who is only 22 and it felt even better. Knowing we have certain players in the team that are ageing, or perhaps past their prime, it takes the sting out a little when these lads find success.

For the first time in a long time, I lay on my bed and actually listened to the match on the radio. Things just felt good, and felt right.

Many will be discussing Coleman, and though he may or may not get a look in against Villa, he will certainly have Moyes' faith in him augmenting. From what I could tell, Rodwell played well too, as did Beckford, and it was great to find Beckford on the score sheet as indeed it was for all the lads.

Last week, and also against Blackburn, I was fairly disappointed, and I guess many of us set ourselves up for a fall by having such high expectations of both the players, and indeed Moyes, but much of the critisism laid at Moyes' door was fairly consistent across the fans, and most will say, justified.

Tonight he did what many have been wanting him to do, and he deserves a pat on the back for taking a chance by doing something a bit different. It will take us into Sundays match with much confidence, and Moyes knows that he has some good options, should he feel the need to use them.

I hope it's not simply a one off, and that he can now look at the team and find inspiration.

Well done lad.
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Post  RhinoJagz on Wed 25 Aug 2010, 11:46 pm

With a 2 week international break coming up, a positive result against Villa is absolutely crucial in getting us firmly back on track. Everytime Moyes has thrown in Coleman, Magaye and Rodwell in pre-season and tonight, they haven't disappointed.

I think Sundays teamsheet will be one of the most eagerly anticipated!


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Post  BB on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 1:19 am

fourdoors wrote:Hi BB,

When you joined this board, I think you said something about being unpopular on other boards due to your contrary opinions.
Then you posted something recently about how you're glad Everton haven't gone the way of Citteh or Chelski, and were praised to the heavens. Smile
Nice to see you posting something a little more controversial - but if it's well written and coherently argued, I think most viewpoints are welcome here (except SuitsBlue).

One of the things I like about Moyes is his humility. He doesn't have arrogance of Wenger or Ferguson. Yes, sometimes I'd love to hear him say what he really thinks about a referee, but what's that going to achieve? A fine, maybe a touchline ban, and he'll weaken his (and Everton's) position in future disputes. Of course there's a fine balance needed: appeasement didn't help Chamberlain much. But ranting to a Sky reporter isn't going to help either.

It's in his nature to be cautious: defenders often are. I can't imagine Abramovich tolerating Moyes as a manager. Wink His reluctance to gamble on an attacking option can frequently be frustrating. On the other hand, that carefulness has benefits: his most expensive flop I think has been Kroldrup (interestingly, a defender): at £5m, that didn't hurt us much. Compare that with some of the other expensive flops at bigger clubs: Veron and Forlan, Shevchenko, and pretty much anybody Rafa signed apart from Torres. Of course, those clubs can afford money to throw around, and sometimes it would be nice to see Moyes being a bit more adventurous (Moutinho anybody?), but Everton can't afford to gamble in the transfer market to that extent. At least, not more than once every few years. So although I agree with your sentiments, I disagree with this comment:

We don't need a manager now, who can bring in players on the cheap and perform miracles with them.
Sadly, we still do. What was our transfer budget this summer? What will it be in the January window? Who would YOU buy for that much money? Wink

Along with his humility comes the self-recognition that Moyes is not the finished article. How often did we hear Rafa admitting to his own faults and promising to try to improve? Or any other manager for that matter? Moyes at least is trying to learn. I fully agree that he needs to evolve, but evolution typically occurs slowly, unless survival is at stake. When Moyes joined and needed to keep Everton up with a squad of pretty poor players, he had to learn fast. As you've said, his position now is far too comfortable. The pressure is off. Moyes is not going to change radically overnight.

So, if Moyes is still learning (evolving), albeit at a slow pace, does that placate you or would you prefer to replace him with somebody more dynamic?

And if you want to replace him..... then who would you suggest? (I'm assuming you weren't serious about Sven drunken ) Every season we hit a bad patch (usually in August!) and people get frustrated by Moyes, and there are calls to sack Moyles (it's an old joke... possibly in the "606 Gold" thread somewhere. "Sack Moyles, bring back Ball" was my favourite.) And the response is always: okay, but who with?
Despite his faults, Moyes has done a good job. As has been said, better than anybody since the glory days. I agree, maybe somebody else could have done better. But maybe not. If we replace him, then it needs to be with somebody better (otherwise, what's the point? Apart from more attacking football or exciting transfers, perhaps), but the new manager will be in the same financial constraints as Moyes.

Personally, I'd keep Moyes, but I would like Bill to kick him up the arse every now and then. And the comment about hiring some more attack-minded coaches is a good one.

P.S. My participation on this board is sporadic and often under the influence of alcohol. If you reply to what I've written, I hope you won't take any lack of response on my part to indicate rudeness or agreement! Very Happy

Hi fourdoors, and thanks for a well written reply.

You mention suitsblue which is unexpected, as the lads on the last forum spoke about him a lot so shall I presume you post on GOT? For the record though, I've never actually had the pleasure of chatting with suits despite his legendary status amongst the membership there.

As for your post, I find myself agreeing with much of what you write. I'm actually pro Moyes, and always have been, but I get frustrated with him often, and for some reason probably expect too much from him. As much as I shout at him, I also hold him very dear in my heart as a football fan, and believe it or not, I'd be upset should he one day move on to new pastures. I've not really taken to any other Everton manager as fondly as I've embraced Moyes, and I think many of us share the same loyalty.

Because we don't often get the chance to share our thoughts with Moyes, and as fans, we of course know better than he does about running the club, we tend to write on forums as if it can make a difference, when the truth is that in simple terms, much of what we write and the opinions we hold are often uneducated and seldomn useful. Realising that such offerings are well meant, faithfully presented, and generally innocent and agenda free is 99% of the secret recipe towards successful debate.

My thoughts change daily. One day I'm left and another I'm right, and most of the time I don't have a clue which direction I'm travelling in and seek enlightenment from your good selves. My downfall is that I'm probably a little more detatched from the club than I used to be as far as wearing the blue spectacles are concerned, in that I don't go to matches anymore, nor do I live in Liverpool, so my comments are somewhat less sympathetic towards the views of more 'die hard' fans, and possibly out of touch from the expected and often prefered response.

In my clouded judgement, Moyes needs to now run on a more adventurous fuel. He's done the job that he was employed to do with great success, but we need to remember that his job description and employment expectancies detailed such success, and not failure, so strictly speaking, he's only done what he's been paid to do.

With regards to my dismissing previous necessities, such as bargain buying, and relegation avoidance, of course they will still form part of his requirements, but I felt our team was possibly 'good enough' and as such, now needed to be led. If they're to be led to a greater height than previously attained under Moyes tenure, then surely repeating the same managerial actions will only serve to provoke the equivalent same reactions, and those have not achieved the required success to date.

Being that Moyes remains unsuitably financed, and competitors now pose a bigger threat to days gone by, both in the number of strong teams competing, and the depth of squads and indeed resources available to them, if he is to succeed, he has to become a 'different' David Moyes, and the team have to become a 'different' team.

I'm probably waffling by now, as I have one eye on the time, and the other on the prospects of a cup of coffee before retiring, so forgive me if that is the case, but knowing what you mean, and attempting to convey it to others, is an art, and even when you discover it, it offers no protection that what I write isn't a load of old bollocks, so being bad at getting your views across can often have it's advantages. cheers
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Post  BB on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 1:44 am

Bluejags wrote:With a 2 week international break coming up, a positive result against Villa is absolutely crucial in getting us firmly back on track. Everytime Moyes has thrown in Coleman, Magaye and Rodwell in pre-season and tonight, they haven't disappointed.

I think Sundays teamsheet will be one of the most eagerly anticipated!


There must surely be an option of playing Coleman as a right winger if the job is still up for grabs, and developing his defending skills in training as per normal. Moyes has always been a great admirer of versatility, so I feel there is an opportunity here, without having to dream of £10 million transfers. Even if it's just a 20 minute spell. I can't see him getting the nod against Young, but then Young gave Hibbert problems last season.
It was interesting that Hibbert came on tonight on the other flank in place of Baines, as opposed to taking Coleman off, or at least that's how it sounded on the radio.
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Post  Da Judge on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 2:22 am

BB wrote:
fourdoors wrote:Hi BB,

When you joined this board, I think you said something about being unpopular on other boards due to your contrary opinions.
Then you posted something recently about how you're glad Everton haven't gone the way of Citteh or Chelski, and were praised to the heavens. Smile
Nice to see you posting something a little more controversial - but if it's well written and coherently argued, I think most viewpoints are welcome here (except SuitsBlue).

One of the things I like about Moyes is his humility. He doesn't have arrogance of Wenger or Ferguson. Yes, sometimes I'd love to hear him say what he really thinks about a referee, but what's that going to achieve? A fine, maybe a touchline ban, and he'll weaken his (and Everton's) position in future disputes. Of course there's a fine balance needed: appeasement didn't help Chamberlain much. But ranting to a Sky reporter isn't going to help either.

It's in his nature to be cautious: defenders often are. I can't imagine Abramovich tolerating Moyes as a manager. Wink His reluctance to gamble on an attacking option can frequently be frustrating. On the other hand, that carefulness has benefits: his most expensive flop I think has been Kroldrup (interestingly, a defender): at £5m, that didn't hurt us much. Compare that with some of the other expensive flops at bigger clubs: Veron and Forlan, Shevchenko, and pretty much anybody Rafa signed apart from Torres. Of course, those clubs can afford money to throw around, and sometimes it would be nice to see Moyes being a bit more adventurous (Moutinho anybody?), but Everton can't afford to gamble in the transfer market to that extent. At least, not more than once every few years. So although I agree with your sentiments, I disagree with this comment:

We don't need a manager now, who can bring in players on the cheap and perform miracles with them.
Sadly, we still do. What was our transfer budget this summer? What will it be in the January window? Who would YOU buy for that much money? Wink

Along with his humility comes the self-recognition that Moyes is not the finished article. How often did we hear Rafa admitting to his own faults and promising to try to improve? Or any other manager for that matter? Moyes at least is trying to learn. I fully agree that he needs to evolve, but evolution typically occurs slowly, unless survival is at stake. When Moyes joined and needed to keep Everton up with a squad of pretty poor players, he had to learn fast. As you've said, his position now is far too comfortable. The pressure is off. Moyes is not going to change radically overnight.

So, if Moyes is still learning (evolving), albeit at a slow pace, does that placate you or would you prefer to replace him with somebody more dynamic?

And if you want to replace him..... then who would you suggest? (I'm assuming you weren't serious about Sven drunken ) Every season we hit a bad patch (usually in August!) and people get frustrated by Moyes, and there are calls to sack Moyles (it's an old joke... possibly in the "606 Gold" thread somewhere. "Sack Moyles, bring back Ball" was my favourite.) And the response is always: okay, but who with?
Despite his faults, Moyes has done a good job. As has been said, better than anybody since the glory days. I agree, maybe somebody else could have done better. But maybe not. If we replace him, then it needs to be with somebody better (otherwise, what's the point? Apart from more attacking football or exciting transfers, perhaps), but the new manager will be in the same financial constraints as Moyes.

Personally, I'd keep Moyes, but I would like Bill to kick him up the arse every now and then. And the comment about hiring some more attack-minded coaches is a good one.

P.S. My participation on this board is sporadic and often under the influence of alcohol. If you reply to what I've written, I hope you won't take any lack of response on my part to indicate rudeness or agreement! Very Happy

Hi fourdoors, and thanks for a well written reply.

You mention suitsblue which is unexpected, as the lads on the last forum spoke about him a lot so shall I presume you post on GOT? For the record though, I've never actually had the pleasure of chatting with suits despite his legendary status amongst the membership there.

As for your post, I find myself agreeing with much of what you write. I'm actually pro Moyes, and always have been, but I get frustrated with him often, and for some reason probably expect too much from him. As much as I shout at him, I also hold him very dear in my heart as a football fan, and believe it or not, I'd be upset should he one day move on to new pastures. I've not really taken to any other Everton manager as fondly as I've embraced Moyes, and I think many of us share the same loyalty.

Because we don't often get the chance to share our thoughts with Moyes, and as fans, we of course know better than he does about running the club, we tend to write on forums as if it can make a difference, when the truth is that in simple terms, much of what we write and the opinions we hold are often uneducated and seldomn useful. Realising that such offerings are well meant, faithfully presented, and generally innocent and agenda free is 99% of the secret recipe towards successful debate.

My thoughts change daily. One day I'm left and another I'm right, and most of the time I don't have a clue which direction I'm travelling in and seek enlightenment from your good selves. My downfall is that I'm probably a little more detatched from the club than I used to be as far as wearing the blue spectacles are concerned, in that I don't go to matches anymore, nor do I live in Liverpool, so my comments are somewhat less sympathetic towards the views of more 'die hard' fans, and possibly out of touch from the expected and often prefered response.

In my clouded judgement, Moyes needs to now run on a more adventurous fuel. He's done the job that he was employed to do with great success, but we need to remember that his job description and employment expectancies detailed such success, and not failure, so strictly speaking, he's only done what he's been paid to do.

With regards to my dismissing previous necessities, such as bargain buying, and relegation avoidance, of course they will still form part of his requirements, but I felt our team was possibly 'good enough' and as such, now needed to be led. If they're to be led to a greater height than previously attained under Moyes tenure, then surely repeating the same managerial actions will only serve to provoke the equivalent same reactions, and those have not achieved the required success to date.

Being that Moyes remains unsuitably financed, and competitors now pose a bigger threat to days gone by, both in the number of strong teams competing, and the depth of squads and indeed resources available to them, if he is to succeed, he has to become a 'different' David Moyes, and the team have to become a 'different' team.

I'm probably waffling by now, as I have one eye on the time, and the other on the prospects of a cup of coffee before retiring, so forgive me if that is the case, but knowing what you mean, and attempting to convey it to others, is an art, and even when you discover it, it offers no protection that what I write isn't a load of old bollocks, so being bad at getting your views across can often have it's advantages. cheers

This is an astounding thread, and one I would certainly consider as a solid entrant into the "Thread of the Year" / Thread Hall of Fame category at the annual awards. That BB is a real treat the annual Christmas awards. I have said several times that in the past I have possibly looked at TW (once or twice) and BK (less than that). As far as I am concerned this board has always been my favourite for the breadth of debate and discussion and as importantly the generosity of spirit in respecting other's opinions.

Like you a number of us have now well and truly left the warm embrace of the "World's Port", in my own case I left in 1979. I also for some years had a decent run at an alternative sport which allowed me to temper my outright enthusiasm - particularly in the more dour years. I follow Everton enthusiastically, perhaps more so than in recent times - perhaps its my own way of filling the voids of passion that are diminishing in other areas of my existence. However I will never be th etype of follower that takes the "Shanklyist" dogma that Football is more important than life or death. To me now, I want Everton to stand as a beacon of fairness. We do play within our means, and we as a club have bigger challenges off the field if they are to enable matters on the field to be consistently more achievable. The whole area of the new ground is a key element. I recoil in abhorrence when I immediately think of a ground-share, yet after reflection and a strategic view there can only be one answer to the dilemma that faces the city and its, perhaps inevitable, demise to the Duke's table as opposed to the Sovereign's top table.

Ideally we need to win a cup and obtain a CL place next year that whilst increasing the attractive aura of Moyes to competitors - still allows DM the opportunity to see that additional seasons a la Ferguson may be the answer. If we do nowhere near that then DM is entilted to be allowed to look at alternatives if they proffer themselves. I would always nowadays want us to reflect the loyalty he has demonstrated is key to his way of working. Moyes is a genuinely decent manager as he is loyal to hos core squad. He is alos honest with them to indicate that winning the right for kick-off requires effort during the week. As long as you do and form is there then you are OK... however the "bench" also know that he is not afraid to shuffle in and once shuffled its for the others (supplanted) to win the shirt back.

Moyes has also recognised that there is (as in all team sports) a real premium built to develop and maintain a synergy of the sum of the parts being less than the sum of the whole. You do not need the individuals stars in the firmament approach of Citteh and the Shoite (and Spuds and Chelski) but rather the approach of Arse and Manure building effective yet organic and evolving squads is the better long term approach.

We have mentioned in other threads that finance within football is due for a change of seismic (if not cataclysmic) proportions. The mores of society are changing; the business model and the "goose killers" who participate are recognising the changing world. How quiet have Chelsea, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Barcelona and Madrdi been? They like Manchester United are appearing to consolidate. Tonteau has said a couple of times that Germany and the financing of the Bundesliga has been very successful. If you want have a look at the relative fluidity of annual performance in the major European leagues. No-one comes close to the unpredictability of the Bundesliga.

In closing (becasue I am waffling a tad) is that I hope Moyes is around when the new financial order kicks in. I feel we have the manager out of the top seven/eight who is best equipped to manage with the small margins. Ferguson and Wenger would also be solid... but not as proven as our Davey.

We can but hope; but a large element of the future does hang on how close the duo of "old rivals" want to join and supprt the fight against the bigger menace of "better equipped teams" and the thrat of not having the World Cup visit the City. In some respect the Shoite can still learn from us. We have had our cyclical decline since the 70/80s - we have had worthless and troublesome chairman who allowed the club to decline with poor business decisions - we now have a squad that should not feel in anyway inferior. This is something the Shoite have to face - with all humility - if they are to thrive in the future.

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Post  Albert on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 9:34 am

just to fill you in on suitsblue BB, he was just some racist idiot that got banned off here about 2 years ago.
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Post  Top Balcony Blue on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 10:18 am

Let's not get too carried away.

Coleman was superb in the second half last night, but equally was very shaky defensively in the first. He seemed to lose his usual confidence in the opening period when he came up second best on a few occasions against their left winger, and has to share his part of the blame for their goal. I think Moyes/the coaching staff got at him at half time because he was a different player and gave Huddersfield a torrid time. All in all, superb going forward, but could really suffer defensively against better oppo - that was my observation anyway.

Rodwell scored a beauty in the first half but on the whole was fairly anonymous, again I think he got a kick up the arse at the break and was much more involved in the second half. Again we know his qualities and he's gonna be a top player but at the minute, in the PL, I'm not convinced he can stamp his authority on a game just yet.

Gueye, or whatever he's called, looked really lively in the opening ten minutes. I was very impressed with his corners too. However, they - like his performance - got worse as the night went on. Not sure he found a blue shirt for the remaining 80 minutes and was so easily knocked off the ball. The lad will need time of course, but based solely on this display would have to be filed under the 'not good enough' category.

Beckford slotted his penalty away well and showed some really nice touches. Something is lacking though. Even against Huddersfield it was evident. He was easily bullied by the centre halves, although he was afforded no protection from the officials, and I think in many ways he's finding it difficult to play that lone role.

Mucha, didn't have mucha to do to be honest.

Fellaini and Distin were the star performers. Fellaini stuck out like a sore thumb at times, and not because of his bonce, but because footballing wise he was light years ahead of anything on the pitch last night.

As an overall performance, the first 15 mins was really pleasing. There was a great energy and pace to our play and that is exactly the kind of way you need to play against lower league oppo. They couldn't live with it and we raced into a 2 goal lead.

Everton being Everton though, disappointingly, decided to take the foot off the gas and give them a foothold in a game that should have been dead in buried by half time had we stuck to the way we were playing. They grew in confidence and got a deserved goal back.

Thankfully, words must have been said at the break and in the second period we did what we should have done for the whole of the first 45 and that was dominate and control proceedings. It could and should have been more than five. The 'walking it into the net' was still on show at times!

Anyway, Sunday is a different kettle of fish and we'll know then how pivotal last night was.
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Post  Super on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 11:18 am

That is three games in a row when we have conceded a goal. SACK MOYES!!!
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Post  SEFTON on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 11:28 am

Super wrote:That is three games in a row when we have conceded a goal. SACK MOYES!!!



sack super? hes a faulse supporter on a mission to spot bargain buys for his posh little team, peterbourough,
both him and adrian duram should be shot at dawn? super the traitor & duram the aggitator.

lol!
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Post  Mr_Ben on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 11:34 am

Super were you born in Peterborough (or near by) or just live there due to work commitments etc
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Post  Super on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 11:52 am

Mr_Ben wrote:Super were you born in Peterborough (or near by) or just live there due to work commitments etc

Born and lived in Northampton before moving to Nottingham to move in with a mate for a couple of years. Only moved to Peterborough after meeting Lulu.

ps Sef I was joking!!
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Post  Tonteau on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 12:16 pm

treblA wrote:
Tonteau wrote:
treblA wrote:
Tonteau wrote:
treblA wrote:some people would have you believe coleman was the next cafu. he can't defend and just gets his head down and runs when he gets the ball. he's not worth a start yet.

How much of him have you actually seen? Hibbo was bigging up his defending the just other day.

i've seen him play for the reserves at widnes a few times, on tv and in person for blackpool at bloomfield road, and i watched the everton appearances on tv - benfica away and spurs at home spring to mind.

so, probably more than most people

Fair dos, although I don't think his half-fit debut, out of position in a hugely weakened side away against a very good attacking team is much to judge him on.

His spurs game was great, he flayed Gareth Bale and his defending was fine as well. Needs to play against huddersfield, really.

yep. ideal game for him.

Got caught out at least twice defensively from the highlights I saw. Think we're best using him as a winger ala Bale. His qualities are clearly much more attacking than defending, but part of a winger's job is getting back and covering in defense and he can do that adequately.
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Post  RhinoJagz on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 12:17 pm

Super wrote:
Mr_Ben wrote:Super were you born in Peterborough (or near by) or just live there due to work commitments etc

Born and lived in Northampton before moving to Nottingham to move in with a mate for a couple of years. Only moved to Peterborough after meeting Lulu.

ps Sef I was joking!!

No he wasnt Sefton. Super has been working behind the scenes with Danny and BB to destabilise the club. Danny has done a twat on the wall documentary where he's infiltrated the club Ultra's (who meet in Brushie's shed on tuesday after Eastenders, except when there is CL football, where they move it to Wednesday lunchtime) and will launch counter measuress to bring down Moyes with innocuous posts which will increase their volatility until WHAMMMM!!! Moyes' position becomes untenable and Danny takes over the hot seat and renames the club The Mean Dead Pimp Running Stingers Factory .

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Post  Top Balcony Blue on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 1:37 pm

Did anyone go last night? Or have I just wasted my time typing all that out Laughing
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 1:52 pm

Bluejags wrote:With a 2 week international break coming up, a positive result against Villa is absolutely crucial in getting us firmly back on track. Everytime Moyes has thrown in Coleman, Magaye and Rodwell in pre-season and tonight, they haven't disappointed.

I think Sundays teamsheet will be one of the most eagerly anticipated!

Very much so! I can't wait to see it myself.
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Post  Mr_Ben on Thu 26 Aug 2010, 2:01 pm

Top Balcony Blue wrote:Did anyone go last night? Or have I just wasted my time typing all that out Laughing

MC was there
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