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Sunderland 2 Everton 2 (Cahill, Arteta)

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Post  Tonteau on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 11:47 am

Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
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Post  Valentino Blue on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 12:07 pm

Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.

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Post  Goodison_Gringo on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 1:37 pm

Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.


Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.
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Post  Valentino Blue on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 1:40 pm

Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.


Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun
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Post  Goodison_Gringo on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 1:42 pm

Valentino Blue wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.



Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun

my point was that once he scores a goal maybe he'll get dropped and Moyes will give someone else a go. Exactly as happened with the Yak.
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 1:54 pm

Armchair Evertonian wrote:I thought Pienaar was a class apart last night. One of his reverse passes to Baines over the heads of the Sunderland defence was sublime. We need to get him signed up asap.
We have no money for him mate after paying Arteta £75k/wk... Rolling Eyes
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 1:55 pm

Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.



Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun

my point was that once he scores a goal maybe he'll get dropped and Moyes will give someone else a go. Exactly as happened with the Yak.
Which, of course, is the total opposite of what should happen.
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Post  Goodison_Gringo on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 2:02 pm

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.



Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun

my point was that once he scores a goal maybe he'll get dropped and Moyes will give someone else a go. Exactly as happened with the Yak.
Which, of course, is the total opposite of what should happen.

exactly. the yak must be wondering what he did wrong.
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 2:03 pm

Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.



Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun

my point was that once he scores a goal maybe he'll get dropped and Moyes will give someone else a go. Exactly as happened with the Yak.
Which, of course, is the total opposite of what should happen.

exactly. the yak must be wondering what he did wrong.
I know. He worked hard and finally scored a (winning) goal, and then gets dropped. There is very little logic in that unless he was asking for a rest or carrying a knock that I am not aware of.
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Post  Valentino Blue on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 2:31 pm

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.



Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun

my point was that once he scores a goal maybe he'll get dropped and Moyes will give someone else a go. Exactly as happened with the Yak.
Which, of course, is the total opposite of what should happen.

exactly. the yak must be wondering what he did wrong.
I know. He worked hard and finally scored a (winning) goal, and then gets dropped. There is very little logic in that unless he was asking for a rest or carrying a knock that I am not aware of.

one way or another there do need to be a few changes for the next match.

Heitinga and Saha for me need to be dropped.

we're creating enough chances (or chances to create chances) and dominating enough games to suggest that the formation isn't the issue in fact altering the formation would probably be detrimental to the only seemingly effective attacking option we have. we're just not getting shots away early enough and adding an extra pass in which allows the opposition time to crowd us out. basically no one seems to want to take responsibility to try to play the killer pass or take a shot. It looks like they're over thinking every move, even Arteta's deflected goal, an inform confident Arteta would have taken that shot first time, as it was he shuffled about a bit then hit and hoped.

Arteta seems unwilling to play further up the pitch, he is either lacking the confidence in himself or the confidence in the players behind him who should be covering (Heitinga).
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 3:40 pm

Valentino Blue wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.



Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun

my point was that once he scores a goal maybe he'll get dropped and Moyes will give someone else a go. Exactly as happened with the Yak.
Which, of course, is the total opposite of what should happen.

exactly. the yak must be wondering what he did wrong.
I know. He worked hard and finally scored a (winning) goal, and then gets dropped. There is very little logic in that unless he was asking for a rest or carrying a knock that I am not aware of.

one way or another there do need to be a few changes for the next match.

Heitinga and Saha for me need to be dropped.

we're creating enough chances (or chances to create chances) and dominating enough games to suggest that the formation isn't the issue in fact altering the formation would probably be detrimental to the only seemingly effective attacking option we have. we're just not getting shots away early enough and adding an extra pass in which allows the opposition time to crowd us out. basically no one seems to want to take responsibility to try to play the killer pass or take a shot. It looks like they're over thinking every move, even Arteta's deflected goal, an inform confident Arteta would have taken that shot first time, as it was he shuffled about a bit then hit and hoped.

Arteta seems unwilling to play further up the pitch, he is either lacking the confidence in himself or the confidence in the players behind him who should be covering (Heitinga).
Which is, I think, a bit strange since Heitinga is a pure defensive player. There's not much quality with him going forward, yet if he manages to stay out of the ref's book, he's a solid defensive player.
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Post  Valentino Blue on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 3:48 pm

Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Knight of Thorgothshire wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Goodison_Gringo wrote:
Valentino Blue wrote:
Tonteau wrote:Anyone know why we benched the Yak after a run of 3-4 games when he really put a shift in and looked great?
Yak was playing well as far as working hard and linking in well with the rest of the team but looked equally as unlikely in front of goal.

personally I'd prefer to see the Yak play as even if he's not scoring he'll hold the ball up and give others the chance to get involved further up the pitch.

I'm guessing that Saha has looked most in form in training and Moyes is hoping 1 goal may give him the confidence he needs to go on a good run.

Beckford needs to be given a bit more time from the bench, but he is not/should not be an option as a starter upfront, especially not as a loan striker.



Yak scored then promptly got dropped half a game later. Maybe Moyes is waiting for Saha to score one before giving Yak or Beckford a run.

as I say, maybe saha has looked sharp in training and moyes thinks one goal could get his confidence going and he'd be scoring for fun

my point was that once he scores a goal maybe he'll get dropped and Moyes will give someone else a go. Exactly as happened with the Yak.
Which, of course, is the total opposite of what should happen.

exactly. the yak must be wondering what he did wrong.
I know. He worked hard and finally scored a (winning) goal, and then gets dropped. There is very little logic in that unless he was asking for a rest or carrying a knock that I am not aware of.

one way or another there do need to be a few changes for the next match.

Heitinga and Saha for me need to be dropped.

we're creating enough chances (or chances to create chances) and dominating enough games to suggest that the formation isn't the issue in fact altering the formation would probably be detrimental to the only seemingly effective attacking option we have. we're just not getting shots away early enough and adding an extra pass in which allows the opposition time to crowd us out. basically no one seems to want to take responsibility to try to play the killer pass or take a shot. It looks like they're over thinking every move, even Arteta's deflected goal, an inform confident Arteta would have taken that shot first time, as it was he shuffled about a bit then hit and hoped.

Arteta seems unwilling to play further up the pitch, he is either lacking the confidence in himself or the confidence in the players behind him who should be covering (Heitinga).
Which is, I think, a bit strange since Heitinga is a pure defensive player. There's not much quality with him going forward, yet if he manages to stay out of the ref's book, he's a solid defensive player.

he's not been recently, has the odd lunge but has been pretty weak most of the season last night in particular. he keeps wandering up the pitch and Arteta others are having to cover.
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Post  Bluey on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 7:18 pm

I think Fellaini is a big miss for us. Him and Arteta are awesome. On reflection Catermole and Henderson? ( memory) seemed quite content to face each other off. Bardsley did a great job of sorting the boys out on the right flank. We'll miss Pienaar if he goes but hopefully Bily and Gueye will step up. He doesn't shoot enough for me and crucially does not get enough goals for an attacking mid/ wideman. Him and Baines last night were great to watch. As was the game itself. I think Moyes should have changed it miles earlier. Sunderland though, have vastly improved as a team.
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Post  hairy cataract on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 7:58 pm

Blueyaletdinov wrote:I think Fellaini is a big miss for us. Him and Arteta are awesome. On reflection Catermole and Henderson? ( memory) seemed quite content to face each other off. Bardsley did a great job of sorting the boys out on the right flank. We'll miss Pienaar if he goes but hopefully Bily and Gueye will step up. He doesn't shoot enough for me and crucially does not get enough goals for an attacking mid/ wideman. Him and Baines last night were great to watch. As was the game itself. I think Moyes should have changed it miles earlier. Sunderland though, have vastly improved as a team.

Fellaini and Arteta really haven't been awesome for us this season, and the idea of Bily stepping up is not one I can get my head round. Sorry. I'd love to see more of Gueye but I guess Moyes hasn't seen anything in training to make it worth giving him a go.

The side we put out against Sunderland is, on paper, pretty much the best we have. Sure, you might say Fellaini would improve it - though obviously I have my doubts about that - but I don't think there is a great deal of tinkering left for Moyes to do. The players simply aren't playing well enough. Must be incredibly frustrating for the manager.
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Post  Bryan on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 9:42 pm

All we are sayin' ... is give Gueye a chance... Sunderland 2 Everton 2 (Cahill, Arteta) - Page 14 Confused

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Post  BB on Tue 23 Nov 2010, 10:32 pm

Did Kenwright keep the receipts?
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Post  Bluey on Wed 24 Nov 2010, 5:41 pm

hairy cataract wrote:
Blueyaletdinov wrote:I think Fellaini is a big miss for us. Him and Arteta are awesome. On reflection Catermole and Henderson? ( memory) seemed quite content to face each other off. Bardsley did a great job of sorting the boys out on the right flank. We'll miss Pienaar if he goes but hopefully Bily and Gueye will step up. He doesn't shoot enough for me and crucially does not get enough goals for an attacking mid/ wideman. Him and Baines last night were great to watch. As was the game itself. I think Moyes should have changed it miles earlier. Sunderland though, have vastly improved as a team.

Fellaini and Arteta really haven't been awesome for us this season, and the idea of Bily stepping up is not one I can get my head round. Sorry. I'd love to see more of Gueye but I guess Moyes hasn't seen anything in training to make it worth giving him a go.

The side we put out against Sunderland is, on paper, pretty much the best we have. Sure, you might say Fellaini would improve it - though obviously I have my doubts about that - but I don't think there is a great deal of tinkering left for Moyes to do. The players simply aren't playing well enough. Must be incredibly frustrating for the manager.

To be be fair the big man has missed most of it and then got stupidly sent off.. I don't rate Johnny at all and I think my point on Pienaar is valid but will miss him. I think the strikers are not scoring enough and we are still letting silly ones in. Story of our season. I put it down to not enough leaders on the pitch/ not enough winning mentality in the team.
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Post  Bluey on Wed 24 Nov 2010, 5:42 pm

Bryan wrote:All we are sayin' ... is give Gueye a chance... Sunderland 2 Everton 2 (Cahill, Arteta) - Page 14 Confused

He'll get it when Cahill goes to the asia cup and especially if Pienaar goes in Jan.
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Post  hairy cataract on Wed 24 Nov 2010, 6:06 pm

Blueyaletdinov wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
Blueyaletdinov wrote:I think Fellaini is a big miss for us. Him and Arteta are awesome. On reflection Catermole and Henderson? ( memory) seemed quite content to face each other off. Bardsley did a great job of sorting the boys out on the right flank. We'll miss Pienaar if he goes but hopefully Bily and Gueye will step up. He doesn't shoot enough for me and crucially does not get enough goals for an attacking mid/ wideman. Him and Baines last night were great to watch. As was the game itself. I think Moyes should have changed it miles earlier. Sunderland though, have vastly improved as a team.

Fellaini and Arteta really haven't been awesome for us this season, and the idea of Bily stepping up is not one I can get my head round. Sorry. I'd love to see more of Gueye but I guess Moyes hasn't seen anything in training to make it worth giving him a go.

The side we put out against Sunderland is, on paper, pretty much the best we have. Sure, you might say Fellaini would improve it - though obviously I have my doubts about that - but I don't think there is a great deal of tinkering left for Moyes to do. The players simply aren't playing well enough. Must be incredibly frustrating for the manager.

To be be fair the big man has missed most of it and then got stupidly sent off.. I don't rate Johnny at all and I think my point on Pienaar is valid but will miss him. I think the strikers are not scoring enough and we are still letting silly ones in. Story of our season. I put it down to not enough leaders on the pitch/ not enough winning mentality in the team.

The big man has missed most of it cos he injured himself stamping on a Red Shite - for which he should have been red-carded. He's back ten minutes and gets red carded for kicking an opponent. He's letting his team down almost every time he plays.

The complete opposite of him is Neville, who Moyes says is first name on the team sheet not because he's the best player at the club but because he's the best leader.
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Post  Bluey on Thu 25 Nov 2010, 5:52 pm

hairy cataract wrote:
Blueyaletdinov wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
Blueyaletdinov wrote:I think Fellaini is a big miss for us. Him and Arteta are awesome. On reflection Catermole and Henderson? ( memory) seemed quite content to face each other off. Bardsley did a great job of sorting the boys out on the right flank. We'll miss Pienaar if he goes but hopefully Bily and Gueye will step up. He doesn't shoot enough for me and crucially does not get enough goals for an attacking mid/ wideman. Him and Baines last night were great to watch. As was the game itself. I think Moyes should have changed it miles earlier. Sunderland though, have vastly improved as a team.

Fellaini and Arteta really haven't been awesome for us this season, and the idea of Bily stepping up is not one I can get my head round. Sorry. I'd love to see more of Gueye but I guess Moyes hasn't seen anything in training to make it worth giving him a go.

The side we put out against Sunderland is, on paper, pretty much the best we have. Sure, you might say Fellaini would improve it - though obviously I have my doubts about that - but I don't think there is a great deal of tinkering left for Moyes to do. The players simply aren't playing well enough. Must be incredibly frustrating for the manager.

To be be fair the big man has missed most of it and then got stupidly sent off.. I don't rate Johnny at all and I think my point on Pienaar is valid but will miss him. I think the strikers are not scoring enough and we are still letting silly ones in. Story of our season. I put it down to not enough leaders on the pitch/ not enough winning mentality in the team.

The big man has missed most of it cos he injured himself stamping on a Red Shite - for which he should have been red-carded. He's back ten minutes and gets red carded for kicking an opponent. He's letting his team down almost every time he plays.

The complete opposite of him is Neville, who Moyes says is first name on the team sheet not because he's the best player at the club but because he's the best leader.
Agreed. But that is where Viera syndrome kicks in.. He is every bit as good. I would invite you again, to notice the way he receives a ball from the sky and passes to a blue shirt.
Bluey
Bluey

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