Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue

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Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Empty Re: Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue

Post  BB on Wed 19 May 2010, 3:01 pm

UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
Super wrote:Have no fear....

David Moyes has no intention of selling any of his top stars this summer, including Jack Rodwell. Everton enjoyed another productive campaign in 2009/10, recovering from a slow start to finish among those pushing for European qualification.

Their continued success means they remain a potential target for those looking to cherry-pick their best players, with the likes of Rodwell and Mikel Arteta regularly linked with moves elsewhere.

The Toffees have been forced to stand by in the past as the cream of their crop is snatched from under their nose, with Wayne Rooney and Joleon Lescott offloaded for big money. However, they have no need to sell at present and Moyes is adamant that no member of his first-team squad is available for transfer.

He told the Daily Express: "Are we susceptible? Of course we are, because people look at us and think, 'We can go to Everton and take their best players'. "But if they do, they know they are going to have to come with a very big cheque. If they come here, they know it is going to be very expensive and our intention is not to let any of the players go. I expect them to be here next season."

Teenage star Rodwell is the latest product of the Goodison Park academy ranks to attract interest from afar. Manchester United are reported to be long-time admirers of the combative England U21 international, but Moyes is confident Everton can convince the versatile 19-year-old that his future would be best served on Merseyside.

"As far as we are concerned, Jack will be here next season," added the Scot. "He has a four-year deal and it is being renewed just now. "I feel he understands that he is being pushed in the right direction at Everton and he appreciates that he is at the right place."

I wish Moyes would stay out of the press to be truthful.
It only takes one little slip up to lose the faith of the fans, or even the dressing room, and for any gain, it's really not worth his while talking to them. Each time I read stuff like that ( and I don't know if Moyes said that or not ) it just strikes me that he is very willing to sell our stars for the right price. It all reminds me a little of 'Rainbows Bungle' when I'd much rather he was Punch.

Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Lgpp0127+bungle-george-zippy-rainbow-poster v Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 PunchJudy.jpg_e_73bb0ba904c9ca5fc20db81bd86a8b49

To be fair to him... as soon as he says that "he has no comment..." then that is subject tom interpretation... and if he ignores then similar.

The reality is I feel something that we need to be realistic.

Last April I was at THAT dinner when I was told Lescott was going for around £20m - now I did not want to see him go and I was gutted that we would consider it a done deal, but the fact remains one year on, who actually got the better of the deal. City paid what would have to be considered a price well over the odds for market value. Everton used the funds to bring in a replacement - Heitinga - (more versatile, better quality yet has not scored the goals that Joleon did). But the money also allowed us to bring in another - Bilyaletdinov - who needs a break like no-one else and I have a sense that he will come good. We also got a decent replacement fill-in player - Distin.

Next year we will be invited to play 38 league matches and participate in cup matches. This is a pivotal season for the club. Ideally (again) I would want the club to retain and build with one addition by playing the fringe and incrementally moving. Providing Moyes continues to ensure that the net impact of a transfer on Everton is that the club is in a better position as a result. This was the case even with something like Rooney going. We were in a better shape as our play became less focussed on "give to Wayne".... or "...hoof it to Dunc..." . The Rooney money enabled Moyes to bring in the players that started to change the way we can play. That has been tuned with the improved perfomance money to invest and bring in additional talent which again has nudged us in the right direction.

I want the squad to remain but if we are to lose anyone I would choose that we lost Pienaar before Arteta, Distin/Senderos ahead of Jagielka. If we do lose then the likelihood is that we do not need to sell our financial state is rather more solid than most. We can be assured that the talent will go for the price that is best suited for the benefit of the club. Any of these players leaving we would have made the case that we think its in their interest to stay. Once they have made their mind up that that is not the case then all the club needs to do is make sure that its (and only its) interests are preserved.

Once we acknowledge this, we have to support the manager and the board insofar as they will in their belief adjust the squad and continue to improve the overall blend. Actually its for Moyes to make the choices - its for his staff to coach and maximise the result and for the Board to have faith.

As I have siad elsewhere, its for us to make what we can recognising that the Shoite are in a much more difficult position.

Good post m8.
I haven't really got time to do it justice with a subjective reply that covers all of it, as must go out, but just a quickie regarding the deal with Lescott.

I think it wasn't a case of who got the best deal. Lescott in my eyes was an 'enormous' loss to Everton, and an 'enormous' gain to City, in that not only were they getting a top defender, but their rivals were also losing one.

We had the opportunity to use what remained of the money, to bring in some new faces, and I feel there is a bit of a mixed opinion regarding how Moyes spent the money. Most are happy with Heitinga, despite him not being able to play for us in Europe. That was a bad mistake on Moyes' part, and one that he needs to learn from this time round and in the future. There is also the point that Moyes bought him without knowing why, as he hasn't a definite position for him.

The same 'why' can apply to Bilyaletdinov, who again doesn't have a set position, and was a head scratcher, as if he wasn't ready to play, then we basically paid a guy a 5 year contract (presuming it was 5 ) to play for 4. This in reality was the 2nd player not ready for Europe based on performances, and the first not ready for 38 gruelling Prem games.

Distin was probably chosen for his experience, and his left foot. I think he's done ok to be fair to the lad, but there have been many instances where fans have lost confidence. so all in all, combined with his age and lack of sell on ability, we have to question him.

To sum up, not a single player Moyes bought with the Lescott money comes free of controversy. We let an enormous amount of goals in, and missed out on Europe. Despite City losing Lescott to injury / operation, they qualified ahead of us.

I'll have to leave it there, but regarding getting a better deal than City, I'd say the opportunity was there, but Moyes blew it. Harsh, but factual I feel. Wink
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Post  Da Judge on Wed 19 May 2010, 5:38 pm

BB wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
Super wrote:Have no fear....

David Moyes has no intention of selling any of his top stars this summer, including Jack Rodwell. Everton enjoyed another productive campaign in 2009/10, recovering from a slow start to finish among those pushing for European qualification.

Their continued success means they remain a potential target for those looking to cherry-pick their best players, with the likes of Rodwell and Mikel Arteta regularly linked with moves elsewhere.

The Toffees have been forced to stand by in the past as the cream of their crop is snatched from under their nose, with Wayne Rooney and Joleon Lescott offloaded for big money. However, they have no need to sell at present and Moyes is adamant that no member of his first-team squad is available for transfer.

He told the Daily Express: "Are we susceptible? Of course we are, because people look at us and think, 'We can go to Everton and take their best players'. "But if they do, they know they are going to have to come with a very big cheque. If they come here, they know it is going to be very expensive and our intention is not to let any of the players go. I expect them to be here next season."

Teenage star Rodwell is the latest product of the Goodison Park academy ranks to attract interest from afar. Manchester United are reported to be long-time admirers of the combative England U21 international, but Moyes is confident Everton can convince the versatile 19-year-old that his future would be best served on Merseyside.

"As far as we are concerned, Jack will be here next season," added the Scot. "He has a four-year deal and it is being renewed just now. "I feel he understands that he is being pushed in the right direction at Everton and he appreciates that he is at the right place."

I wish Moyes would stay out of the press to be truthful.
It only takes one little slip up to lose the faith of the fans, or even the dressing room, and for any gain, it's really not worth his while talking to them. Each time I read stuff like that ( and I don't know if Moyes said that or not ) it just strikes me that he is very willing to sell our stars for the right price. It all reminds me a little of 'Rainbows Bungle' when I'd much rather he was Punch.

Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Lgpp0127+bungle-george-zippy-rainbow-poster v Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 PunchJudy.jpg_e_73bb0ba904c9ca5fc20db81bd86a8b49

To be fair to him... as soon as he says that "he has no comment..." then that is subject tom interpretation... and if he ignores then similar.

The reality is I feel something that we need to be realistic.

Last April I was at THAT dinner when I was told Lescott was going for around £20m - now I did not want to see him go and I was gutted that we would consider it a done deal, but the fact remains one year on, who actually got the better of the deal. City paid what would have to be considered a price well over the odds for market value. Everton used the funds to bring in a replacement - Heitinga - (more versatile, better quality yet has not scored the goals that Joleon did). But the money also allowed us to bring in another - Bilyaletdinov - who needs a break like no-one else and I have a sense that he will come good. We also got a decent replacement fill-in player - Distin.

Next year we will be invited to play 38 league matches and participate in cup matches. This is a pivotal season for the club. Ideally (again) I would want the club to retain and build with one addition by playing the fringe and incrementally moving. Providing Moyes continues to ensure that the net impact of a transfer on Everton is that the club is in a better position as a result. This was the case even with something like Rooney going. We were in a better shape as our play became less focussed on "give to Wayne".... or "...hoof it to Dunc..." . The Rooney money enabled Moyes to bring in the players that started to change the way we can play. That has been tuned with the improved perfomance money to invest and bring in additional talent which again has nudged us in the right direction.

I want the squad to remain but if we are to lose anyone I would choose that we lost Pienaar before Arteta, Distin/Senderos ahead of Jagielka. If we do lose then the likelihood is that we do not need to sell our financial state is rather more solid than most. We can be assured that the talent will go for the price that is best suited for the benefit of the club. Any of these players leaving we would have made the case that we think its in their interest to stay. Once they have made their mind up that that is not the case then all the club needs to do is make sure that its (and only its) interests are preserved.

Once we acknowledge this, we have to support the manager and the board insofar as they will in their belief adjust the squad and continue to improve the overall blend. Actually its for Moyes to make the choices - its for his staff to coach and maximise the result and for the Board to have faith.

As I have siad elsewhere, its for us to make what we can recognising that the Shoite are in a much more difficult position.

Good post m8.
I haven't really got time to do it justice with a subjective reply that covers all of it, as must go out, but just a quickie regarding the deal with Lescott.

I think it wasn't a case of who got the best deal. Lescott in my eyes was an 'enormous' loss to Everton, and an 'enormous' gain to City, in that not only were they getting a top defender, but their rivals were also losing one.

We had the opportunity to use what remained of the money, to bring in some new faces, and I feel there is a bit of a mixed opinion regarding how Moyes spent the money. Most are happy with Heitinga, despite him not being able to play for us in Europe. That was a bad mistake on Moyes' part, and one that he needs to learn from this time round and in the future. There is also the point that Moyes bought him without knowing why, as he hasn't a definite position for him.

The same 'why' can apply to Bilyaletdinov, who again doesn't have a set position, and was a head scratcher, as if he wasn't ready to play, then we basically paid a guy a 5 year contract (presuming it was 5 ) to play for 4. This in reality was the 2nd player not ready for Europe based on performances, and the first not ready for 38 gruelling Prem games.

Distin was probably chosen for his experience, and his left foot. I think he's done ok to be fair to the lad, but there have been many instances where fans have lost confidence. so all in all, combined with his age and lack of sell on ability, we have to question him.

To sum up, not a single player Moyes bought with the Lescott money comes free of controversy. We let an enormous amount of goals in, and missed out on Europe. Despite City losing Lescott to injury / operation, they qualified ahead of us.

I'll have to leave it there, but regarding getting a better deal than City, I'd say the opportunity was there, but Moyes blew it. Harsh, but factual I feel. Wink

As my brothers would say (and me to be fair)... "Sir, what you necessarily regard as fact is properly more defined as an opinion, and that as we would all agree is possible to dispute." Very Happy Very Happy

Facts are very absolute.

Can we agree with these?

1. Lescott was transferred before the deadline AND after the season started
2. Everton (under Moyes direction) dug their heels in and resisted the initial overtures of Manchester City
3. You can take it or leave it - I was informed at an Everton Dinner that Lesott was likely to be moving - the figure quoted was £20m and as we know the final fee was 20% higher.

I take your point that the transfer between rivals heightens the impact between the teams concerned. However its a matter of conjecture that Lescott might have been injured playing for Everton just as much likely as for City so that point is moot.

Your next criticism around Moyes is that he signed players unable to participate in Europe. Well that is true for quite a number of players when they are signed late. If we do not have the resources then you cannot buy early. That said Moyes was genuinely unlucky that Heitinga could not participate in the Europa League after Christmas. The demotion of Atletico Madrid into the Europa League meant his ineligibility was extended. Is your point that Moyes should be held accountable for the performance of Atletico Madrid as well?

Now in your opinion the signings of both "Billy" and "Heitinga" are replete with controversy; the controversy being that Moyes had no fixed ideas as to how they should be played. The fact that they can play effectively in a number of positions is a "weakness" and reflective of Moyes inability to spot how a player should be utilised. Try as I might I cannot reconcile how a player who is so gifted as to excel in a number of positions should be considered a weakness. In effect he enables us to use one budgt to supply a solid defensive midfielder, a dependable overlapping full back (look at his Ajax clips) to a solid and highly skilful centre-back. Its not always about height (Terry for instance is not that tall) its about timing, and anticipation.

Bilyaletdinov is also coming off 18 months of solid football and can play in a variety of positions. Wide on the left or dropped off the front forward. He can also play on the right, he has pace and according some has a decent shot with minimal backlift - all these are recognised shortcomings if you consider that he was replacing Ronaldo... but he wasn't was he.

Both Billy and Heitinga have had the ability to live and play effectively with CL quality clubs. Again I struggle to understand your logic that bringing these players in is a risk and their versatility (or more accurately Moyes inability to comprehend what is their best position) is a weakness.

How many Everton players were ever present for 38 Premier games this season? In fact how many PL professionals were ever present? I would hazard a guess we are talking of a handful - even less when you disregard goalkeepers - so your point of lasting/preparing to last 38 gruelling games is, again, in my opinion, over-egging to the point of being irrelevant.

I spend a large part of my professional career developing strategy and project planning for major initiatives. Now like football matches no two are the same - each challenge requires preparation and calculation as to how to engineer the best result with the resources available. Moyes bringing in these players is a stroke of genius in my opinion. He has an improving level of resource available that has flexibility to play in a number of formations and varying threats and strengths to defy the opposition.

The reason we let so many goals in we were disorganised and rattled by the initial thumping (Lescott is blame free that day - or did he have a hand in the outcome). That strikes at confidence - we then play a team brimming with enthusiasm - a newly promoted team Burnley then you have a dip in confidence - all teams do and its perfectly natural - thats why the season is 38 games long.

Yes City qualified into Europe - apart from clarifying with them if its was the European competition of their expectations given the money invested I would say that they are as disappointed as we are. Our season dipped because we drew too many times and never seized the day at the Shoite.

I suppose you might now think of me as being a Moyes apologist; that everything is perfect. I am not and more importantly he is not. I do however recognise when someone is better at a job than I and when that occurs prefer to give him support in his/her efforts.

I wish he was more decisive in wanting to win rather than not lose. But remember he was here in the days when drawing and not losing was everything, so we are progressing. I prefer us to be under the radar for one-two more seasons. If we get a fair wind then I still beleive the stewardship and talent finding he has displayed will see us come good... shit just read that last sentence back and am now sounding like a Red Shoite who blindly believes in the hereafter so I will stop ... but in doing so would exhort us all into shouting...


COYBB!!! cheers cheers cheers cheers

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Post  BB on Wed 19 May 2010, 10:04 pm

UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
Super wrote:Have no fear....

David Moyes has no intention of selling any of his top stars this summer, including Jack Rodwell. Everton enjoyed another productive campaign in 2009/10, recovering from a slow start to finish among those pushing for European qualification.

Their continued success means they remain a potential target for those looking to cherry-pick their best players, with the likes of Rodwell and Mikel Arteta regularly linked with moves elsewhere.

The Toffees have been forced to stand by in the past as the cream of their crop is snatched from under their nose, with Wayne Rooney and Joleon Lescott offloaded for big money. However, they have no need to sell at present and Moyes is adamant that no member of his first-team squad is available for transfer.

He told the Daily Express: "Are we susceptible? Of course we are, because people look at us and think, 'We can go to Everton and take their best players'. "But if they do, they know they are going to have to come with a very big cheque. If they come here, they know it is going to be very expensive and our intention is not to let any of the players go. I expect them to be here next season."

Teenage star Rodwell is the latest product of the Goodison Park academy ranks to attract interest from afar. Manchester United are reported to be long-time admirers of the combative England U21 international, but Moyes is confident Everton can convince the versatile 19-year-old that his future would be best served on Merseyside.

"As far as we are concerned, Jack will be here next season," added the Scot. "He has a four-year deal and it is being renewed just now. "I feel he understands that he is being pushed in the right direction at Everton and he appreciates that he is at the right place."

I wish Moyes would stay out of the press to be truthful.
It only takes one little slip up to lose the faith of the fans, or even the dressing room, and for any gain, it's really not worth his while talking to them. Each time I read stuff like that ( and I don't know if Moyes said that or not ) it just strikes me that he is very willing to sell our stars for the right price. It all reminds me a little of 'Rainbows Bungle' when I'd much rather he was Punch.

Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Lgpp0127+bungle-george-zippy-rainbow-poster v Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 PunchJudy.jpg_e_73bb0ba904c9ca5fc20db81bd86a8b49

To be fair to him... as soon as he says that "he has no comment..." then that is subject tom interpretation... and if he ignores then similar.

The reality is I feel something that we need to be realistic.

Last April I was at THAT dinner when I was told Lescott was going for around £20m - now I did not want to see him go and I was gutted that we would consider it a done deal, but the fact remains one year on, who actually got the better of the deal. City paid what would have to be considered a price well over the odds for market value. Everton used the funds to bring in a replacement - Heitinga - (more versatile, better quality yet has not scored the goals that Joleon did). But the money also allowed us to bring in another - Bilyaletdinov - who needs a break like no-one else and I have a sense that he will come good. We also got a decent replacement fill-in player - Distin.

Next year we will be invited to play 38 league matches and participate in cup matches. This is a pivotal season for the club. Ideally (again) I would want the club to retain and build with one addition by playing the fringe and incrementally moving. Providing Moyes continues to ensure that the net impact of a transfer on Everton is that the club is in a better position as a result. This was the case even with something like Rooney going. We were in a better shape as our play became less focussed on "give to Wayne".... or "...hoof it to Dunc..." . The Rooney money enabled Moyes to bring in the players that started to change the way we can play. That has been tuned with the improved perfomance money to invest and bring in additional talent which again has nudged us in the right direction.

I want the squad to remain but if we are to lose anyone I would choose that we lost Pienaar before Arteta, Distin/Senderos ahead of Jagielka. If we do lose then the likelihood is that we do not need to sell our financial state is rather more solid than most. We can be assured that the talent will go for the price that is best suited for the benefit of the club. Any of these players leaving we would have made the case that we think its in their interest to stay. Once they have made their mind up that that is not the case then all the club needs to do is make sure that its (and only its) interests are preserved.

Once we acknowledge this, we have to support the manager and the board insofar as they will in their belief adjust the squad and continue to improve the overall blend. Actually its for Moyes to make the choices - its for his staff to coach and maximise the result and for the Board to have faith.

As I have siad elsewhere, its for us to make what we can recognising that the Shoite are in a much more difficult position.

Good post m8.
I haven't really got time to do it justice with a subjective reply that covers all of it, as must go out, but just a quickie regarding the deal with Lescott.

I think it wasn't a case of who got the best deal. Lescott in my eyes was an 'enormous' loss to Everton, and an 'enormous' gain to City, in that not only were they getting a top defender, but their rivals were also losing one.

We had the opportunity to use what remained of the money, to bring in some new faces, and I feel there is a bit of a mixed opinion regarding how Moyes spent the money. Most are happy with Heitinga, despite him not being able to play for us in Europe. That was a bad mistake on Moyes' part, and one that he needs to learn from this time round and in the future. There is also the point that Moyes bought him without knowing why, as he hasn't a definite position for him.

The same 'why' can apply to Bilyaletdinov, who again doesn't have a set position, and was a head scratcher, as if he wasn't ready to play, then we basically paid a guy a 5 year contract (presuming it was 5 ) to play for 4. This in reality was the 2nd player not ready for Europe based on performances, and the first not ready for 38 gruelling Prem games.

Distin was probably chosen for his experience, and his left foot. I think he's done ok to be fair to the lad, but there have been many instances where fans have lost confidence. so all in all, combined with his age and lack of sell on ability, we have to question him.

To sum up, not a single player Moyes bought with the Lescott money comes free of controversy. We let an enormous amount of goals in, and missed out on Europe. Despite City losing Lescott to injury / operation, they qualified ahead of us.

I'll have to leave it there, but regarding getting a better deal than City, I'd say the opportunity was there, but Moyes blew it. Harsh, but factual I feel. Wink

As my brothers would say (and me to be fair)... "Sir, what you necessarily regard as fact is properly more defined as an opinion, and that as we would all agree is possible to dispute." Very Happy Very Happy

Facts are very absolute.

Can we agree with these?

1. Lescott was transferred before the deadline AND after the season started
2. Everton (under Moyes direction) dug their heels in and resisted the initial overtures of Manchester City
3. You can take it or leave it - I was informed at an Everton Dinner that Lesott was likely to be moving - the figure quoted was £20m and as we know the final fee was 20% higher.

I take your point that the transfer between rivals heightens the impact between the teams concerned. However its a matter of conjecture that Lescott might have been injured playing for Everton just as much likely as for City so that point is moot.

Your next criticism around Moyes is that he signed players unable to participate in Europe. Well that is true for quite a number of players when they are signed late. If we do not have the resources then you cannot buy early. That said Moyes was genuinely unlucky that Heitinga could not participate in the Europa League after Christmas. The demotion of Atletico Madrid into the Europa League meant his ineligibility was extended. Is your point that Moyes should be held accountable for the performance of Atletico Madrid as well?

Now in your opinion the signings of both "Billy" and "Heitinga" are replete with controversy; the controversy being that Moyes had no fixed ideas as to how they should be played. The fact that they can play effectively in a number of positions is a "weakness" and reflective of Moyes inability to spot how a player should be utilised. Try as I might I cannot reconcile how a player who is so gifted as to excel in a number of positions should be considered a weakness. In effect he enables us to use one budgt to supply a solid defensive midfielder, a dependable overlapping full back (look at his Ajax clips) to a solid and highly skilful centre-back. Its not always about height (Terry for instance is not that tall) its about timing, and anticipation.

Bilyaletdinov is also coming off 18 months of solid football and can play in a variety of positions. Wide on the left or dropped off the front forward. He can also play on the right, he has pace and according some has a decent shot with minimal backlift - all these are recognised shortcomings if you consider that he was replacing Ronaldo... but he wasn't was he.

Both Billy and Heitinga have had the ability to live and play effectively with CL quality clubs. Again I struggle to understand your logic that bringing these players in is a risk and their versatility (or more accurately Moyes inability to comprehend what is their best position) is a weakness.

How many Everton players were ever present for 38 Premier games this season? In fact how many PL professionals were ever present? I would hazard a guess we are talking of a handful - even less when you disregard goalkeepers - so your point of lasting/preparing to last 38 gruelling games is, again, in my opinion, over-egging to the point of being irrelevant.

I spend a large part of my professional career developing strategy and project planning for major initiatives. Now like football matches no two are the same - each challenge requires preparation and calculation as to how to engineer the best result with the resources available. Moyes bringing in these players is a stroke of genius in my opinion. He has an improving level of resource available that has flexibility to play in a number of formations and varying threats and strengths to defy the opposition.

The reason we let so many goals in we were disorganised and rattled by the initial thumping (Lescott is blame free that day - or did he have a hand in the outcome). That strikes at confidence - we then play a team brimming with enthusiasm - a newly promoted team Burnley then you have a dip in confidence - all teams do and its perfectly natural - thats why the season is 38 games long.

Yes City qualified into Europe - apart from clarifying with them if its was the European competition of their expectations given the money invested I would say that they are as disappointed as we are. Our season dipped because we drew too many times and never seized the day at the Shoite.

I suppose you might now think of me as being a Moyes apologist; that everything is perfect. I am not and more importantly he is not. I do however recognise when someone is better at a job than I and when that occurs prefer to give him support in his/her efforts.

I wish he was more decisive in wanting to win rather than not lose. But remember he was here in the days when drawing and not losing was everything, so we are progressing. I prefer us to be under the radar for one-two more seasons. If we get a fair wind then I still beleive the stewardship and talent finding he has displayed will see us come good... shit just read that last sentence back and am now sounding like a Red Shoite who blindly believes in the hereafter so I will stop ... but in doing so would exhort us all into shouting...


COYBB!!! cheers cheers cheers cheers

Thank you.
I really appreciate folks who take the time to write replies to my often naive questions and comments. It's good to chat. Very Happy

I'm on a lot of tablets at the moment, so sometimes my posts can be a bit controversial, but I mean well. Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Crash
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Post  hairy cataract on Wed 19 May 2010, 10:20 pm

Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.
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Post  Da Judge on Wed 19 May 2010, 10:24 pm

hairy cataract wrote:Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.

Wanking sorry I meant Banking industry... that or a senior cathedral chorister settling his claims Suspect

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Post  RhinoJagz on Wed 19 May 2010, 10:35 pm

hairy cataract wrote:Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.

Two things. The solid interest from Man Utd plus with the home grown rule, good English players will be at a premium, especially for the Sky 2 (-2) +2. I doubt the club wanted to pay him that much so soon, but with the sell potential down the line plus he's actual potential he's just arrived at the right place at the right time. Lucky fucker..

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Post  hairy cataract on Wed 19 May 2010, 11:13 pm

UWIST61 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.

Wanking sorry I meant Banking industry... that or a senior cathedral chorister settling his claims Suspect

No, not at nineteen surely? Most bankers are graduates aren't they?
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Wed 19 May 2010, 11:14 pm

hairy cataract wrote:Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.
That's an excellenet point, but football (and you could make the case for popular sports in general. The best paid hockey players in the NHL make $10M/year) follows no "normal" rules of society.
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Post  Bluey on Wed 19 May 2010, 11:15 pm

BB wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
Super wrote:Have no fear....

David Moyes has no intention of selling any of his top stars this summer, including Jack Rodwell. Everton enjoyed another productive campaign in 2009/10, recovering from a slow start to finish among those pushing for European qualification.

Their continued success means they remain a potential target for those looking to cherry-pick their best players, with the likes of Rodwell and Mikel Arteta regularly linked with moves elsewhere.

The Toffees have been forced to stand by in the past as the cream of their crop is snatched from under their nose, with Wayne Rooney and Joleon Lescott offloaded for big money. However, they have no need to sell at present and Moyes is adamant that no member of his first-team squad is available for transfer.

He told the Daily Express: "Are we susceptible? Of course we are, because people look at us and think, 'We can go to Everton and take their best players'. "But if they do, they know they are going to have to come with a very big cheque. If they come here, they know it is going to be very expensive and our intention is not to let any of the players go. I expect them to be here next season."

Teenage star Rodwell is the latest product of the Goodison Park academy ranks to attract interest from afar. Manchester United are reported to be long-time admirers of the combative England U21 international, but Moyes is confident Everton can convince the versatile 19-year-old that his future would be best served on Merseyside.

"As far as we are concerned, Jack will be here next season," added the Scot. "He has a four-year deal and it is being renewed just now. "I feel he understands that he is being pushed in the right direction at Everton and he appreciates that he is at the right place."

I wish Moyes would stay out of the press to be truthful.
It only takes one little slip up to lose the faith of the fans, or even the dressing room, and for any gain, it's really not worth his while talking to them. Each time I read stuff like that ( and I don't know if Moyes said that or not ) it just strikes me that he is very willing to sell our stars for the right price. It all reminds me a little of 'Rainbows Bungle' when I'd much rather he was Punch.

Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Lgpp0127+bungle-george-zippy-rainbow-poster v Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 PunchJudy.jpg_e_73bb0ba904c9ca5fc20db81bd86a8b49

To be fair to him... as soon as he says that "he has no comment..." then that is subject tom interpretation... and if he ignores then similar.

The reality is I feel something that we need to be realistic.

Last April I was at THAT dinner when I was told Lescott was going for around £20m - now I did not want to see him go and I was gutted that we would consider it a done deal, but the fact remains one year on, who actually got the better of the deal. City paid what would have to be considered a price well over the odds for market value. Everton used the funds to bring in a replacement - Heitinga - (more versatile, better quality yet has not scored the goals that Joleon did). But the money also allowed us to bring in another - Bilyaletdinov - who needs a break like no-one else and I have a sense that he will come good. We also got a decent replacement fill-in player - Distin.

Next year we will be invited to play 38 league matches and participate in cup matches. This is a pivotal season for the club. Ideally (again) I would want the club to retain and build with one addition by playing the fringe and incrementally moving. Providing Moyes continues to ensure that the net impact of a transfer on Everton is that the club is in a better position as a result. This was the case even with something like Rooney going. We were in a better shape as our play became less focussed on "give to Wayne".... or "...hoof it to Dunc..." . The Rooney money enabled Moyes to bring in the players that started to change the way we can play. That has been tuned with the improved perfomance money to invest and bring in additional talent which again has nudged us in the right direction.

I want the squad to remain but if we are to lose anyone I would choose that we lost Pienaar before Arteta, Distin/Senderos ahead of Jagielka. If we do lose then the likelihood is that we do not need to sell our financial state is rather more solid than most. We can be assured that the talent will go for the price that is best suited for the benefit of the club. Any of these players leaving we would have made the case that we think its in their interest to stay. Once they have made their mind up that that is not the case then all the club needs to do is make sure that its (and only its) interests are preserved.

Once we acknowledge this, we have to support the manager and the board insofar as they will in their belief adjust the squad and continue to improve the overall blend. Actually its for Moyes to make the choices - its for his staff to coach and maximise the result and for the Board to have faith.

As I have siad elsewhere, its for us to make what we can recognising that the Shoite are in a much more difficult position.

Good post m8.
I haven't really got time to do it justice with a subjective reply that covers all of it, as must go out, but just a quickie regarding the deal with Lescott.

I think it wasn't a case of who got the best deal. Lescott in my eyes was an 'enormous' loss to Everton, and an 'enormous' gain to City, in that not only were they getting a top defender, but their rivals were also losing one.

We had the opportunity to use what remained of the money, to bring in some new faces, and I feel there is a bit of a mixed opinion regarding how Moyes spent the money. Most are happy with Heitinga, despite him not being able to play for us in Europe. That was a bad mistake on Moyes' part, and one that he needs to learn from this time round and in the future. There is also the point that Moyes bought him without knowing why, as he hasn't a definite position for him.

The same 'why' can apply to Bilyaletdinov, who again doesn't have a set position, and was a head scratcher, as if he wasn't ready to play, then we basically paid a guy a 5 year contract (presuming it was 5 ) to play for 4. This in reality was the 2nd player not ready for Europe based on performances, and the first not ready for 38 gruelling Prem games.

Distin was probably chosen for his experience, and his left foot. I think he's done ok to be fair to the lad, but there have been many instances where fans have lost confidence. so all in all, combined with his age and lack of sell on ability, we have to question him.

To sum up, not a single player Moyes bought with the Lescott money comes free of controversy. We let an enormous amount of goals in, and missed out on Europe. Despite City losing Lescott to injury / operation, they qualified ahead of us.

I'll have to leave it there, but regarding getting a better deal than City, I'd say the opportunity was there, but Moyes blew it. Harsh, but factual I feel. Wink

As my brothers would say (and me to be fair)... "Sir, what you necessarily regard as fact is properly more defined as an opinion, and that as we would all agree is possible to dispute." Very Happy Very Happy

Facts are very absolute.

Can we agree with these?

1. Lescott was transferred before the deadline AND after the season started
2. Everton (under Moyes direction) dug their heels in and resisted the initial overtures of Manchester City
3. You can take it or leave it - I was informed at an Everton Dinner that Lesott was likely to be moving - the figure quoted was £20m and as we know the final fee was 20% higher.

I take your point that the transfer between rivals heightens the impact between the teams concerned. However its a matter of conjecture that Lescott might have been injured playing for Everton just as much likely as for City so that point is moot.

Your next criticism around Moyes is that he signed players unable to participate in Europe. Well that is true for quite a number of players when they are signed late. If we do not have the resources then you cannot buy early. That said Moyes was genuinely unlucky that Heitinga could not participate in the Europa League after Christmas. The demotion of Atletico Madrid into the Europa League meant his ineligibility was extended. Is your point that Moyes should be held accountable for the performance of Atletico Madrid as well?

Now in your opinion the signings of both "Billy" and "Heitinga" are replete with controversy; the controversy being that Moyes had no fixed ideas as to how they should be played. The fact that they can play effectively in a number of positions is a "weakness" and reflective of Moyes inability to spot how a player should be utilised. Try as I might I cannot reconcile how a player who is so gifted as to excel in a number of positions should be considered a weakness. In effect he enables us to use one budgt to supply a solid defensive midfielder, a dependable overlapping full back (look at his Ajax clips) to a solid and highly skilful centre-back. Its not always about height (Terry for instance is not that tall) its about timing, and anticipation.

Bilyaletdinov is also coming off 18 months of solid football and can play in a variety of positions. Wide on the left or dropped off the front forward. He can also play on the right, he has pace and according some has a decent shot with minimal backlift - all these are recognised shortcomings if you consider that he was replacing Ronaldo... but he wasn't was he.

Both Billy and Heitinga have had the ability to live and play effectively with CL quality clubs. Again I struggle to understand your logic that bringing these players in is a risk and their versatility (or more accurately Moyes inability to comprehend what is their best position) is a weakness.

How many Everton players were ever present for 38 Premier games this season? In fact how many PL professionals were ever present? I would hazard a guess we are talking of a handful - even less when you disregard goalkeepers - so your point of lasting/preparing to last 38 gruelling games is, again, in my opinion, over-egging to the point of being irrelevant.

I spend a large part of my professional career developing strategy and project planning for major initiatives. Now like football matches no two are the same - each challenge requires preparation and calculation as to how to engineer the best result with the resources available. Moyes bringing in these players is a stroke of genius in my opinion. He has an improving level of resource available that has flexibility to play in a number of formations and varying threats and strengths to defy the opposition.

The reason we let so many goals in we were disorganised and rattled by the initial thumping (Lescott is blame free that day - or did he have a hand in the outcome). That strikes at confidence - we then play a team brimming with enthusiasm - a newly promoted team Burnley then you have a dip in confidence - all teams do and its perfectly natural - thats why the season is 38 games long.

Yes City qualified into Europe - apart from clarifying with them if its was the European competition of their expectations given the money invested I would say that they are as disappointed as we are. Our season dipped because we drew too many times and never seized the day at the Shoite.

I suppose you might now think of me as being a Moyes apologist; that everything is perfect. I am not and more importantly he is not. I do however recognise when someone is better at a job than I and when that occurs prefer to give him support in his/her efforts.

I wish he was more decisive in wanting to win rather than not lose. But remember he was here in the days when drawing and not losing was everything, so we are progressing. I prefer us to be under the radar for one-two more seasons. If we get a fair wind then I still beleive the stewardship and talent finding he has displayed will see us come good... shit just read that last sentence back and am now sounding like a Red Shoite who blindly believes in the hereafter so I will stop ... but in doing so would exhort us all into shouting...


COYBB!!! cheers cheers cheers cheers

Thank you.
I really appreciate folks who take the time to write replies to my often naive questions and comments. It's good to chat. Very Happy

I'm on a lot of tablets at the moment, so sometimes my posts can be a bit controversial, but I mean well. Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Crash

What tablets?
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Post  Bluey on Wed 19 May 2010, 11:17 pm

hairy cataract wrote:Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.

If your good enough, that is what the monster pays.
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Post  Da Judge on Wed 19 May 2010, 11:22 pm

hairy cataract wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.

Wanking sorry I meant Banking industry... that or a senior cathedral chorister settling his claims Suspect

No, not at nineteen surely? Most bankers are graduates aren't they?
There are some who were out and out "barrow boys"... less likely than used to be the case... The key is the percentage they take on trades.....

Yesterday there were hundreds of trades in just my company alone. As Cameron was mentioning the other day there is a problem with too much short termism. A good example is I saw a trade some weeks back were someone sold 125,000 shares in my company for around £12.48 per share. Now lets say they paid around £12.00 a share thats around £60k profit. But as a result the shares lost a penny, the same trader bought £125,300 shares for around the same amount that they had just gained... all they did was get 300 shares or whatever for free. Thats what these guys do buy and sell for pennies difference but at 100,000 shares a pop each succesful trade generates a Grand of which the trader takes a cut.... now factor that across 10 hours a day 200 days a year - 2000 hours at 300 trades an hour say and average of £50 per trade... plus salary and profut share....

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Post  Bluey on Wed 19 May 2010, 11:24 pm

UWIST61 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
hairy cataract wrote:Just clicked the link on another thread, about a new ground, and it came up with a NSNO story about Rodwell signing a new five year contract that they reckon is worth £40k a week.

I was wondering, can anyone think of another industry where a 19 year old would earn over £2m a year - bearing in mind he isn't even a "senior" member of staff? I'm not talking about self-employed teenagers, like pop stars or Hollywood actors - I mean a salaried employee.

Wanking sorry I meant Banking industry... that or a senior cathedral chorister settling his claims Suspect

No, not at nineteen surely? Most bankers are graduates aren't they?
There are some who were out and out "barrow boys"... less likely than used to be the case... The key is the percentage they take on trades.....

Yesterday there were hundreds of trades in just my company alone. As Cameron was mentioning the other day there is a problem with too much short termism. A good example is I saw a trade some weeks back were someone sold 125,000 shares in my company for around £12.48 per share. Now lets say they paid around £12.00 a share thats around £60k profit. But as a result the shares lost a penny, the same trader bought £125,300 shares for around the same amount that they had just gained... all they did was get 300 shares or whatever for free. Thats what these guys do buy and sell for pennies difference but at 100,000 shares a pop each succesful trade generates a Grand of which the trader takes a cut.... now factor that across 10 hours a day 200 days a year - 2000 hours at 300 trades an hour say and average of £50 per trade... plus salary and profut share....
All part of GDP
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Post  Da Judge on Wed 19 May 2010, 11:35 pm

Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Advfn10

The above screen shows around a 15 minute period in the trading of Vodafone - note the share volumes and the prices... and also recognise that brokers can charge around 2% and you start to see how the money adds up...

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Post  BB on Thu 20 May 2010, 12:29 am

Blueyaletdinov wrote:
BB wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
UWIST61 wrote:
BB wrote:
Super wrote:Have no fear....

David Moyes has no intention of selling any of his top stars this summer, including Jack Rodwell. Everton enjoyed another productive campaign in 2009/10, recovering from a slow start to finish among those pushing for European qualification.

Their continued success means they remain a potential target for those looking to cherry-pick their best players, with the likes of Rodwell and Mikel Arteta regularly linked with moves elsewhere.

The Toffees have been forced to stand by in the past as the cream of their crop is snatched from under their nose, with Wayne Rooney and Joleon Lescott offloaded for big money. However, they have no need to sell at present and Moyes is adamant that no member of his first-team squad is available for transfer.

He told the Daily Express: "Are we susceptible? Of course we are, because people look at us and think, 'We can go to Everton and take their best players'. "But if they do, they know they are going to have to come with a very big cheque. If they come here, they know it is going to be very expensive and our intention is not to let any of the players go. I expect them to be here next season."

Teenage star Rodwell is the latest product of the Goodison Park academy ranks to attract interest from afar. Manchester United are reported to be long-time admirers of the combative England U21 international, but Moyes is confident Everton can convince the versatile 19-year-old that his future would be best served on Merseyside.

"As far as we are concerned, Jack will be here next season," added the Scot. "He has a four-year deal and it is being renewed just now. "I feel he understands that he is being pushed in the right direction at Everton and he appreciates that he is at the right place."

I wish Moyes would stay out of the press to be truthful.
It only takes one little slip up to lose the faith of the fans, or even the dressing room, and for any gain, it's really not worth his while talking to them. Each time I read stuff like that ( and I don't know if Moyes said that or not ) it just strikes me that he is very willing to sell our stars for the right price. It all reminds me a little of 'Rainbows Bungle' when I'd much rather he was Punch.

Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Lgpp0127+bungle-george-zippy-rainbow-poster v Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 PunchJudy.jpg_e_73bb0ba904c9ca5fc20db81bd86a8b49

To be fair to him... as soon as he says that "he has no comment..." then that is subject tom interpretation... and if he ignores then similar.

The reality is I feel something that we need to be realistic.

Last April I was at THAT dinner when I was told Lescott was going for around £20m - now I did not want to see him go and I was gutted that we would consider it a done deal, but the fact remains one year on, who actually got the better of the deal. City paid what would have to be considered a price well over the odds for market value. Everton used the funds to bring in a replacement - Heitinga - (more versatile, better quality yet has not scored the goals that Joleon did). But the money also allowed us to bring in another - Bilyaletdinov - who needs a break like no-one else and I have a sense that he will come good. We also got a decent replacement fill-in player - Distin.

Next year we will be invited to play 38 league matches and participate in cup matches. This is a pivotal season for the club. Ideally (again) I would want the club to retain and build with one addition by playing the fringe and incrementally moving. Providing Moyes continues to ensure that the net impact of a transfer on Everton is that the club is in a better position as a result. This was the case even with something like Rooney going. We were in a better shape as our play became less focussed on "give to Wayne".... or "...hoof it to Dunc..." . The Rooney money enabled Moyes to bring in the players that started to change the way we can play. That has been tuned with the improved perfomance money to invest and bring in additional talent which again has nudged us in the right direction.

I want the squad to remain but if we are to lose anyone I would choose that we lost Pienaar before Arteta, Distin/Senderos ahead of Jagielka. If we do lose then the likelihood is that we do not need to sell our financial state is rather more solid than most. We can be assured that the talent will go for the price that is best suited for the benefit of the club. Any of these players leaving we would have made the case that we think its in their interest to stay. Once they have made their mind up that that is not the case then all the club needs to do is make sure that its (and only its) interests are preserved.

Once we acknowledge this, we have to support the manager and the board insofar as they will in their belief adjust the squad and continue to improve the overall blend. Actually its for Moyes to make the choices - its for his staff to coach and maximise the result and for the Board to have faith.

As I have siad elsewhere, its for us to make what we can recognising that the Shoite are in a much more difficult position.

Good post m8.
I haven't really got time to do it justice with a subjective reply that covers all of it, as must go out, but just a quickie regarding the deal with Lescott.

I think it wasn't a case of who got the best deal. Lescott in my eyes was an 'enormous' loss to Everton, and an 'enormous' gain to City, in that not only were they getting a top defender, but their rivals were also losing one.

We had the opportunity to use what remained of the money, to bring in some new faces, and I feel there is a bit of a mixed opinion regarding how Moyes spent the money. Most are happy with Heitinga, despite him not being able to play for us in Europe. That was a bad mistake on Moyes' part, and one that he needs to learn from this time round and in the future. There is also the point that Moyes bought him without knowing why, as he hasn't a definite position for him.

The same 'why' can apply to Bilyaletdinov, who again doesn't have a set position, and was a head scratcher, as if he wasn't ready to play, then we basically paid a guy a 5 year contract (presuming it was 5 ) to play for 4. This in reality was the 2nd player not ready for Europe based on performances, and the first not ready for 38 gruelling Prem games.

Distin was probably chosen for his experience, and his left foot. I think he's done ok to be fair to the lad, but there have been many instances where fans have lost confidence. so all in all, combined with his age and lack of sell on ability, we have to question him.

To sum up, not a single player Moyes bought with the Lescott money comes free of controversy. We let an enormous amount of goals in, and missed out on Europe. Despite City losing Lescott to injury / operation, they qualified ahead of us.

I'll have to leave it there, but regarding getting a better deal than City, I'd say the opportunity was there, but Moyes blew it. Harsh, but factual I feel. Wink

As my brothers would say (and me to be fair)... "Sir, what you necessarily regard as fact is properly more defined as an opinion, and that as we would all agree is possible to dispute." Very Happy Very Happy

Facts are very absolute.

Can we agree with these?

1. Lescott was transferred before the deadline AND after the season started
2. Everton (under Moyes direction) dug their heels in and resisted the initial overtures of Manchester City
3. You can take it or leave it - I was informed at an Everton Dinner that Lesott was likely to be moving - the figure quoted was £20m and as we know the final fee was 20% higher.

I take your point that the transfer between rivals heightens the impact between the teams concerned. However its a matter of conjecture that Lescott might have been injured playing for Everton just as much likely as for City so that point is moot.

Your next criticism around Moyes is that he signed players unable to participate in Europe. Well that is true for quite a number of players when they are signed late. If we do not have the resources then you cannot buy early. That said Moyes was genuinely unlucky that Heitinga could not participate in the Europa League after Christmas. The demotion of Atletico Madrid into the Europa League meant his ineligibility was extended. Is your point that Moyes should be held accountable for the performance of Atletico Madrid as well?

Now in your opinion the signings of both "Billy" and "Heitinga" are replete with controversy; the controversy being that Moyes had no fixed ideas as to how they should be played. The fact that they can play effectively in a number of positions is a "weakness" and reflective of Moyes inability to spot how a player should be utilised. Try as I might I cannot reconcile how a player who is so gifted as to excel in a number of positions should be considered a weakness. In effect he enables us to use one budgt to supply a solid defensive midfielder, a dependable overlapping full back (look at his Ajax clips) to a solid and highly skilful centre-back. Its not always about height (Terry for instance is not that tall) its about timing, and anticipation.

Bilyaletdinov is also coming off 18 months of solid football and can play in a variety of positions. Wide on the left or dropped off the front forward. He can also play on the right, he has pace and according some has a decent shot with minimal backlift - all these are recognised shortcomings if you consider that he was replacing Ronaldo... but he wasn't was he.

Both Billy and Heitinga have had the ability to live and play effectively with CL quality clubs. Again I struggle to understand your logic that bringing these players in is a risk and their versatility (or more accurately Moyes inability to comprehend what is their best position) is a weakness.

How many Everton players were ever present for 38 Premier games this season? In fact how many PL professionals were ever present? I would hazard a guess we are talking of a handful - even less when you disregard goalkeepers - so your point of lasting/preparing to last 38 gruelling games is, again, in my opinion, over-egging to the point of being irrelevant.

I spend a large part of my professional career developing strategy and project planning for major initiatives. Now like football matches no two are the same - each challenge requires preparation and calculation as to how to engineer the best result with the resources available. Moyes bringing in these players is a stroke of genius in my opinion. He has an improving level of resource available that has flexibility to play in a number of formations and varying threats and strengths to defy the opposition.

The reason we let so many goals in we were disorganised and rattled by the initial thumping (Lescott is blame free that day - or did he have a hand in the outcome). That strikes at confidence - we then play a team brimming with enthusiasm - a newly promoted team Burnley then you have a dip in confidence - all teams do and its perfectly natural - thats why the season is 38 games long.

Yes City qualified into Europe - apart from clarifying with them if its was the European competition of their expectations given the money invested I would say that they are as disappointed as we are. Our season dipped because we drew too many times and never seized the day at the Shoite.

I suppose you might now think of me as being a Moyes apologist; that everything is perfect. I am not and more importantly he is not. I do however recognise when someone is better at a job than I and when that occurs prefer to give him support in his/her efforts.

I wish he was more decisive in wanting to win rather than not lose. But remember he was here in the days when drawing and not losing was everything, so we are progressing. I prefer us to be under the radar for one-two more seasons. If we get a fair wind then I still beleive the stewardship and talent finding he has displayed will see us come good... shit just read that last sentence back and am now sounding like a Red Shoite who blindly believes in the hereafter so I will stop ... but in doing so would exhort us all into shouting...


COYBB!!! cheers cheers cheers cheers

Thank you.
I really appreciate folks who take the time to write replies to my often naive questions and comments. It's good to chat. Very Happy

I'm on a lot of tablets at the moment, so sometimes my posts can be a bit controversial, but I mean well. Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 Crash

What tablets?

Quite a list. Gabapentin to Quinine bisulphate to Tramadol and lots inbetween. Really, I kid you not.
Last few days have been painfull, so had a few extra. Can affect memory, focus, and a few other symptoms.
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Post  Da Judge on Thu 20 May 2010, 12:56 am

BB that is quite a cocktail covering a spectrum of unrelated conditions. What is your diagnosed condition (assuming you want to share) if not then that's OK....?

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Post  BB on Thu 20 May 2010, 1:25 am

UWIST61 wrote:BB that is quite a cocktail covering a spectrum of unrelated conditions. What is your diagnosed condition (assuming you want to share) if not then that's OK....?

I have about 12 different types on and off m8.
Mainly for pain. Nothing serious.
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Post  Mr_Ben on Thu 20 May 2010, 6:31 am

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2980056/Alex-15m-move-for-Rodders.html
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Thu 20 May 2010, 1:53 pm

I can't open the link, but the title says it all. £15M? I think we can do a lot better than that if he were to go. A young and upcoming English player, we can do much better I think than £15M.
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Post  MagicMike on Thu 20 May 2010, 1:54 pm

Here you go Thorg.....

MANCHESTER UNITED are ready to go to war with Everton over Jack Rodwell.

Toffees boss David Moyes has issued a clear 'not for sale' sign over his young midfield star.

But United are determined to go ahead with a £15million bid.

United boss Alex Ferguson was close to making a move for the player in the January transfer window.

Now he wants the 19-year-old to strengthen his team who surrendered the title to Chelsea this season and went out of the Champions League at the quarter-final stage.

Moyes is trying to convince the England Under-21 international that he is at the best place to develop, having come through the ranks of the Everton academy.

The club are also looking to sign him on a new improved deal in a further attempt to keep him.

But that might still not be enough if the player wants to move.

Moyes said: "Are we susceptible? Of course we are, because people look at us and think, 'We can go to Everton and take their best players'.

"But, as far as we are concerned, Jack will be here next season."

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/2980056/Alex-15m-move-for-Rodders.html#ixzz0oTR738qX
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Thu 20 May 2010, 1:57 pm

Cheers Mike. Don't you just "love" the firs line:

MANCHESTER UNITED are ready to go to war with Everton over Jack Rodwell.

Jack Rodwell - Beckenbauer in err Sky Blue - Page 7 F_doh

I really think that Rodwell is a smart sensible young man and will sign a new contract with us realising he will be able to develop better with us.
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Post  MagicMike on Thu 20 May 2010, 2:04 pm

He'll cost them more than £15m. He's already got four years left on his current deal, which is long enough to demand a sizeable fee IMHO. If he signs a new one then we'll have even more to bargain with. I don't see him going personally. If he does we'll get a good money for him.

Same story with Arteta really. I don't see Wenger spending the cash Moyes would want for him. I think only City would have the funds and I'm not sure they'd convince Arteta to move. If he did, again we'd get good money.

Pienaar is the only real worry for me. We could lose him and not really get full value due to being in the final year of his contract.
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Post  hairy cataract on Thu 20 May 2010, 2:45 pm

MagicMike wrote:He'll cost them more than £15m. He's already got four years left on his current deal, which is long enough to demand a sizeable fee IMHO. If he signs a new one then we'll have even more to bargain with. I don't see him going personally. If he does we'll get a good money for him.

Same story with Arteta really. I don't see Wenger spending the cash Moyes would want for him. I think only City would have the funds and I'm not sure they'd convince Arteta to move. If he did, again we'd get good money.

Pienaar is the only real worry for me. We could lose him and not really get full value due to being in the final year of his contract.

Yes, I agree. Pienaar will be a good cheap buy for someone. I do think he will go I'm afraid. I don't see Arteta as being a first choice buy for Citteh, or Arsenal for that matter. Rodwell may well stay another year, but if he does go - yes it will be a lot more than £15m, although some of that may be performance/success related and a good chunky sell-on clause.
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Post  Knight of Thorgothshire on Thu 20 May 2010, 6:04 pm

hairy cataract wrote:
MagicMike wrote:He'll cost them more than £15m. He's already got four years left on his current deal, which is long enough to demand a sizeable fee IMHO. If he signs a new one then we'll have even more to bargain with. I don't see him going personally. If he does we'll get a good money for him.

Same story with Arteta really. I don't see Wenger spending the cash Moyes would want for him. I think only City would have the funds and I'm not sure they'd convince Arteta to move. If he did, again we'd get good money.

Pienaar is the only real worry for me. We could lose him and not really get full value due to being in the final year of his contract.

Yes, I agree. Pienaar will be a good cheap buy for someone. I do think he will go I'm afraid. I don't see Arteta as being a first choice buy for Citteh, or Arsenal for that matter. Rodwell may well stay another year, but if he does go - yes it will be a lot more than £15m, although some of that may be performance/success related and a good chunky sell-on clause.
It'll be an interesting summer. With another 6 months under his belt, Rodwell could provide some competition among the starting eleven, something we need.
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Post  MagicMike on Thu 20 May 2010, 6:09 pm

I agree Thorg. I'm curious as to where Rodwell will eventually fit into this team. At the moment he's filling in a bit, but with Fellaini looking likely to cement himself in the DM role, will Jack compete with Arteta for the other central position? Or will he end up a centre half?
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Post  Tonteau on Thu 20 May 2010, 6:09 pm

The trouble with selling Rodwell now is that we'll never get anywhere near his true value because he hasn't cemented a place in the team and shown what he can do week in-week out. We all know he has the potential to be a real cracking player, but people only pay so much for potential. If we can keep him here another year or so and he continues his improvement it'll take a lot more money to prize him away from us. £15 million would be galling right now, but on the face of it with his performances and experience so far, he's not worth a great deal more than that to a club like united. We all know he is though and thankfully Moyes knows that, too.
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